has anyone heard that this project has been canceled? There was a Facebook posting stating that it was canceled due to lack of orders
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@David Eisinger posted:has anyone heard that this project has been canceled? There was a Facebook posting stating that it was canceled due to lack of orders
Who made the Facebook posting? If it was not Lee, then maybe asking Lee 1st would be the best course of action.........
And that sadly is what happens when people won't back projects, sadly this leaves only one or two importers , at least he produced the pilot before asking for a deposit, I have no desire with other importers to embark on ten year mystery tours of failed delivery schedules and explanations that stretch credibility to breaking point. Goodbye hi-end brass US steam.
I’m not sure the offering was the best choice..... just another Daylight.
Besides, the offering was very limited.... no GS2s? While I have no interest in a Daylight, I did ask for a WP GS-64 and they said no. So, I spent my 6k somewhere else.
One needs to choose popular models to get reservations. That means Daylight, or K4, or J1e - just like always. Then, when you plan on a $5000 model, you get really selective. I doubt Lee will try anything less popular than a Daylight. I really doubt the GS-6 would bring in a tenth the reservations that a GS-4 with skirts would.
opinion
The economy is working against Lee - think many people are cautious about parting with 5000 dollars in this depressionary environment. I am quite concerned about the demise of high end brass in O Scale. Heck, HO, too. Jimmy Booth mentioned that he had difficulty selling all of his HO Pennsy T1's.
Lee's website says the project will only go forward with 50% reservations in hand.
I don't think the 72 inch minimum radius helped to much neither.
@bob2 posted:One needs to choose popular models to get reservations. That means Daylight, or K4, or J1e - just like always. Then, when you plan on a $5000 model, you get really selective. I doubt Lee will try anything less popular than a Daylight. I really doubt the GS-6 would bring in a tenth the reservations that a GS-4 with skirts would.
opinion
Agree, Bob. I meant besides the GS4 as optional models that may carry the project forward. Flexibility offering.
@SANTIAGOP23 posted:Agree, Bob. I meant besides the GS4 as optional models that may carry the project forward. Flexibility offering.
Except, the dimensions of the GS-4/GS-5 are quite a bit different than all the other SP GS models, including the WP version.
@Hot Water posted:Except, the dimensions of the GS-4/GS-5 are quite a bit different than all the other SP GS models, including the WP version.
Except, everyone knows that.
On the 72" radius requirement - it really would be senseless to put compromises into a $5000 model just so it could go around a 65" curve. Almost all of my larger steam requires at least 70" radius, and I am not above tapering the tailbeams and lengthening lead trucks. Discerning modelers won't put up with that.
I am surprised Lee could get it down to 72". My Daylights protest on 74".
@David Eisinger posted:I don't think the 72 inch minimum radius helped to much neither.
That's pretty much been the de facto minimum radius for Northerns and larger since I started in "O" unless you want 3 rail compromises.
Simon
@Limey posted:And that sadly is what happens when people won't back projects, sadly this leaves only one or two importers , at least he produced the pilot before asking for a deposit, I have no desire with other importers to embark on ten year mystery tours of failed delivery schedules and explanations that stretch credibility to breaking point. Goodbye hi-end brass US steam.
No. None of this is the fault of customers or potential customers. It's mostly choices made by importers intersecting at final price. If you miss the intersection, projects fail.
I don't think anyone was going to get rich off the back of this project, pre covid 19, S Korea's average wage as I understand was in the region of $30k, it may come as a surprise but people don't want to work for peanuts, especially if you have a transferable skill. Not anyone's fault per se but the window of opportunity to manufacture and import hi end brass just tangibly closed that little bit more. As I also inferred those importers who string projects out for 10 years are living on borrowed time, the impending deep recession will hopefully put paid to this nonsense.
At least one other European importer, Steiner, has walked away from a project in an advanced state of development.
I am just pleased to have got one of Lee's 9f's with scale wheels, approximate to US P48. A real beauty. I wish him well with his future endeavours.
@mwb posted:No. None of this is the fault of customers or potential customers. It's mostly choices made by importers intersecting at final price. If you miss the intersection, projects fail.
Let's put the blame on the elephant in the room:
PANDEMIC
People aren't buying stuff like they were before the crap hit the fan, and there is a vast amount of uncertainty just how things are going to be when this mess blows over. The name of the intersection is uncertainty and confusion. Mr. Marsh's only failing is that he couldn't see all this crap coming.
Simon
I just exchanged e-mails with Lee Marsh today. He indicated the project is NOT dead! He will produce a VERY,VERY limited number of these locomotives. It will be next year at the earliest. I reserved 2 GS-5 Daylight locomotives whenever they are done.
That's very good news! Let's here it for Lee. Good man!
@Simon Winter posted:Let's put the blame on the elephant in the room:
PANDEMIC
People aren't buying stuff like they were before the crap hit the fan, and there is a vast amount of uncertainty just how things are going to be when this mess blows over. The name of the intersection is uncertainty and confusion. Mr. Marsh's only failing is that he couldn't see all this crap coming.
Simon
Except he cancelled them before the pandemic and returned all deposits.
@nikkormat posted:I just exchanged e-mails with Lee Marsh today. He indicated the project is NOT dead! He will produce a VERY,VERY limited number of these locomotives. It will be next year at the earliest. I reserved 2 GS-5 Daylight locomotives whenever they are done.
That would be great. I had reserved a GS-5 in P48. Wonder if that can get revived.
You might want to e-mail him and let him know what you want like I did so he will know how many to produce. He did refund my initial reservation when he initially cancelled the project. He indicated the project was not dead even at that time but did not have the needed reservations to do them the way he wanted. His e-mail indicated the pandemic is retarding his progress on this project though.
"Returned all the deposits" !
He is an honourable man - a contrast with one or two of the current US brass non-importers who talk big but deliver little. **** one of them does not even talk big but hides away in silence.
Interesting that a recent O Scale Resource (an excellent publication) had an article on legal remedies to take when your deposit disappears.
How about something smaller like a prairie of the ATSF or Milwaukee Road! What is the obsession with large locomotives which require a large radius not to mention a huge layout to look good.
Markets sort of dictate which models are produced. Larger steam is apparently easier to produce at a profit.
Sunset has done quite a few smaller steam locomotives over the years.
Interesting that a recent O Scale Resource (an excellent publication) had an article on legal remedies to take when your deposit disappears. What Issue is it?
Which Issue is it?
@nikkormat posted:Which Issue is it?
September/October 2021
I’m with swrr on this. I own 4 Glacier Park SP models 2-8-0, 2-6-0, and 0-6-0 as well as 2 Division Point 4-6-0’s and they all will handle a 36” radius curve I have in one hidden return loop. I’m quite sure if more small high end models that could handle tighter curves were available you’d see an increase in people building layouts in O scale. Not everybody has the room or wealth to build layouts with 72” curves……
Peter
@Peter E B posted:I’m with swrr on this. I own 4 Glacier Park SP models 2-8-0, 2-6-0, and 0-6-0 as well as 2 Division Point 4-6-0’s and they all will handle a 36” radius curve I have in one hidden return loop. I’m quite sure if more small high end models that could handle tighter curves were available you’d see an increase in people building layouts in O scale. Not everybody has the room or wealth to build layouts with 72” curves……
Peter
I think a lot of guys would settle for even small not-so-high end models! 
@mwb posted:I think a lot of guys would settle for even small not-so-high end models!
Sunset 3d Rail have lots of small engines but unfortunately they don’t handle tight curves. There was a fellow on the forums posting his SP 2-6-0 would not negotiate 48" curves. I believe the issue it non-jointed main rods not allowing adequate side to side play of the drivers.
Peter
@Peter E B posted:Sunset 3d Rail have lots of small engines but unfortunately they don’t handle tight curves. There was a fellow on the forums posting his SP 2-6-0 would not negotiate 48" curves. I believe the issue it non-jointed main rods not allowing adequate side to side play of the drivers.
Peter
They do? What's been done recently? All I see are a few 3 rail 0-6-0 switchers.
Main rods are never "jointed".
A Mogul with rigid drivers would probably do 36" radius, but the problem is always the lead truck and drawbar. Realism and tight radius are opposites.
@mwb posted:They do? What's been done recently? All I see are a few 3 rail 0-6-0 switchers.
I buy everything second hand so I don’t really keep current on offerings.
Peter
@bob2 posted:Main rods are never "jointed".
A Mogul with rigid drivers would probably do 36" radius, but the problem is always the lead truck and drawbar. Realism and tight radius are opposites.
Here’s a video that disproves that:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=qa...JM&feature=share
100% stock Glacier Park 2-8-0 traversing a 36” radius S curve with no straight track between the curves.
Tomorrow I’ll post a photo of what I call “jointed” main rods I’m probably not using the right terminology but don’t know the proper term
Peter
@Peter E B posted:I buy everything second hand so I don’t really keep current on offerings.
Peter
So your claim that "Sunset 3d Rail have lots of small engines" is retrospective.
@bob2 posted:A Mogul with rigid drivers would probably do 36" radius, but the problem is always the lead truck and drawbar.
That has been my experience - mainly the lead truck.
Realism and tight radius are opposites.
That is inaccurate as a general statement. How tight a radius can you run an 0-4-0? Or, single truck trolleys vs. 2 trucks trolleys? Or, B-B vs. C-C diesels? Wheel arrangement is an active variable.
FWIW: the All Nation Ten Wheeler(s) I have will run on Atlas 36"R track...as "bob2" likes to say: "your milage may vary...". 🙂
Mark in Oregon
I stand by my general statement. Even an 0-4-0 will encounter a curve it cannot handle without larger treads and flanges and really wide drawbar and coupler swing. A video of a very nice model on 36" radius does not disprove my general statement, and says nothing about a rigid wheelbase.
I do not have any 36" radius track, and am mainly interested in scale couplings - I do have a number of locomotive with one piece side rods, although I have had castings done with full clevis joints for my more recent efforts. Stevenson has the masters, and they are as good as the CLW rods.
@Peter E B posted:Sunset 3d Rail have lots of small engines but unfortunately they don’t handle tight curves. There was a fellow on the forums posting his SP 2-6-0 would not negotiate 48" curves. I believe the issue it non-jointed main rods not allowing adequate side to side play of the drivers.
Peter
There was a fellow on what forums? Who is this fellow?
I have Sunset 2-8-8-2s that will negotiate 48" curves easily. Of course that is like having 2 consolidations back to back. I'll have to check my 4-8-2 and 4-8-0.
