Legacy 611 and the three blinking lights of death

My MR S3 did the same thing awhile back... 

So did my UP Mikado, and my Southern U28. None of them smoke now.

c.sam posted:

My MR S3 did the same thing awhile back... 

So did my UP Mikado, and my Southern U28. None of them smoke now.

How is it the MTH smoke units are so robust and the Lionel so delicate?

I’ve had this happen with more than one Legacy steamer. I have always lucked out but reprogramming engine and all was good after set button was hit. 

Doesn’t three blinks mean main smoke unit fan problem? And has it not been posted on the forum before (by Saint Mike no less) that a shot of compressed air (from an airbrush or a can of computer dust remover) will often clear the problem because it frees up the motor to spin without drawing excessive current?

FWIW I think that the problem is that no matter how you try to avoid it, smoke fluid can clog the fan motor, and if the engine is left unused for a period the fluid will have time to set like a weak glue but strong enough to cause this issue.   

BobbyD posted:

c.sam posted:

My MR S3 did the same thing awhile back... 

So did my UP Mikado, and my Southern U28. None of them smoke now.

How is it the MTH smoke units are so robust and the Lionel so delicate?

They have (1) a patent on something, which I think means more than just the dual resistor configuration and (2) no complicated diagnostic system similar to Legacy products.

My newly acquired Lionel 5344 Aux smoke generator fan used for the whistle steam/smoke effect wouldn't work.  With the small plastic whistle removed from the top of the loco I could see that the resistor was making smoke when running the engine around the track, but the fan wasn't blowing the smoke out when operating the whistle.  We took the engine apart, removed the small fan, and found that the impeller was sluggish and felt gummed up.  We soaked the fan in gas and every 5 minutes gently blew air into the impeller until it felt loose and free of that gummy feel, except for the magnetic effect felt while gently turning the impeller with a toothpick.  We then resoldered the two wires, installed the motor, and it works perfect.  The fans for both the main smoke stack and the whistle smoke are identical, at least on my Lionel 5344 Hudson.  I'm not sure what caused the gummy substance inside the motor.  Perhaps a lubricant used by the factory that got dry.  I didn't see any way for smoke fluid to get into the fan motor, at least not in my 5344.

Many thanks for all of these excellent suggestions. I will get back to you with the results.

Scrapiron

I had the same thing happen to a Legacy Berk.  I let it sit overnight with some JT's Eliminator and the next day she smoked like a fiend and haven't had a problem since.

Scrapiron,

I bought the C&O Berkshire back in 2015 and the second time I run it got the blinking triple cab light. I remembered a vedio Mike Reagan made in 2013 or 2014. He blew down the stack and he said it was to get rid of the meniscus formed by the smoke fluid in the stack. I tried to blow down the stack and it didn't work. So I got a flex tubing that fit the ID of the stack blew down the stack then sucked back out. Did this three times,  set on the track reset the power and no blinking lights. Engine set for a mounth or two and had to do the process again. It seamed to remedy the problem and engine smoked as it should. I moved to a new home and engine sat for a year. Tried it on the new layout after a year or more and no blinking lights. 

Good luck

STE 

If those ideas above don't help.

You can try opening it up and putting a drop of light oil on the fan motor output shaft bushing.

Turn it with the finger a few dozen times to work the oil in before you test it.

If that doesn't help a new fan motor may be the next step.

I only use my Lionel  legacy smoke units occasionally, just enough to make sure they still work or for a brief show for guests. I just have little confidence in them.

Having said that. My 2 tmcc locos have smoke units that ALWAYS work and the fans are nearly silent.

It seems with these Legacy engines it's only a matter of time. I own 9 and 7 no longer smoke after a year of limited use. Bought replacement motors but I hate popping the hood when everything else works fine. It's a shame, since it's quite a dramatic affect when a steam engine is crawling along the smoke unite works properly.

Most likely let it sit awhile and all should be fine. I think the blinking lights are too sensitive. This happened to me after adding fluid. I wish smoke units were simply an option for Lionel. 

Yep. I purchased 2 Southern Pacific GS6's and after one lap around the layout both smoke units took a dump.... very depressing.

Yikes, not something to look forward to. My Vision big Boy has a blowdown problem. No emission.

Bummer is you cannot get the parts unless you call Lionel and "talk nice to them"

Fan driven smoke units and their related parts becoming gummed up after varied periods of time used is perhaps why, dispite the wondering why by some forumites, Mike Raegan has in the past recommended only Lionel smoke fluid be used in their units. Afterall, even if just a slight difference in smoke manufacturers formulations exist, they in essence therefore are not truly equal and consideringt the delicate nature of smoke unit parts perhaps even the slightest deviations in their formulas might contribute to the gummy problems reported in numerous smoke unit issues by forum members.

Actually, I have to respectfully disagree with you on this one. These smoke units are failing with less than a few minutes of run time on them. I have taken them apart to find cracked circuit boards, missing or broken gaskets, and fan motors that will not operate.

I'd do the compressed air to see if you can get it running without taking it apart.  If you're going to take it apart, use a new smoke motor, they're cheap.

I never have this many issiues with them. And I use smoke all the time. I have about 7 smoke motors ready to go and my smoke unit tester . So I can test a unit after repair.  

I ALWAYS use Lionel smoke fluid, as per Mike Reagan's recommendation, from the first time I opened the throttle. So clearly in my case that wasn't an issue. I purchased 4 NEW Legacy Engines in 2014, each from the same reliable toy train dealer, 3 steam, 1 diesel. The diesel, #38563 B&O sharknose RF16 AA,  was the last purchase & the first to have the blinking light issue after 1 month. I doubt I had 2 hours running time on it. Under warranty, I shipped to Lionel & happily it returned repaired, in less than 2 weeks (faulty motors replaced). Happy ending, nope, 2 weeks later same problem again, really! Couldn't bother shipping it back again. Still no smoke, not happy. I haven't bought a Lionel engine since.  I was told here on the forum, Lionel had a major problem with the motors from that period. Well, I'm waiting for the arrival of the new Legacy scale Polar Express. I hope it doesn't give me any problems but based on the feedback here, sadly, I doubt it.

I have over 20 MTH premier engines, some 15+ years old. The smoke units works EVERY time, even in engines I haven't run in years. I don't even add smoke fluid initially if the smoke comes on strong after the first lap or 2.

I really don't care why something works perfectly and why it doesn't, whatever manufacturer. The point is, if you pay $600 to $2000 for what is essentially a toy, (are we all nuts?) it should run perfectly for a reasonable amount of time, especially new out of the box!  2 hours is not a reasonable amount of time.

Of course, we are only going to hear about the problems here. Hardly anyone ever writes in, 300 hours later and still running strong!

Most of us love the multitude of bells, whistles and features available these days, and it comes at a price, a very high price! The price shouldn't be, expect it to brake very soon. There's a saying, "You get what you pay for". I guess 2 grand is still not enough.

The engine costs are $600-$2000 but the tiny motors are 1000 for $5 from China. I have had good luck hitting the motors with brake cleaner and then a 9V bump. I am actively looking for better motors as replacements and will pass anything I learn along.

The issue has been resolved and it appears the problem was the fan stuck with gunk. EZMike Lauria took the J apart and showed me step by step how to do that. We used an airbrush on the fan and tested the motor and resistor. All were fine and we then changed, and "Reaganized" the batting. Thanks to EZMike, the J is now a smoking champion. I have to start up the smoke unit more than once every three weeks.

Scrappy

Lionel smoke units should be more robust.  I have had several that just stopped working - no apparent reason.  Some of my MTH smoke units have also failed, but the incidence is much lower.  Really wish Lionel would build more reliable smoke units - would pay more to get them.