Legacy F40PH Again!!!

Time for a Cruise Commander?

Hmmm, maybe it's you! 

Sorry to hear. They do look good and it was an exciting release. Hopefully an easy fix.

That is bad news!  I bet you're probably wishing this was an 'ebay treasure' so you could fix it yourself and be done with it. 

It's like the never ending story!

After reading that I'll stop complaining about my TMCC Mikado.

Good call Denny.

John:

Sorry to hear about this!

I am enjoying running my Lionel F40PH units so much that it prompted me to pursue adding passengers and now (your) LED light kits to my MTH Amtrak Superliners - as detailed in another thread.

Best of luck getting this latest problem resolved.

Stan

You need yourself a Luck Dragon John

John,

Try swapping out the R4LC for one you know works.  I had a TMCC F7 that after running the engine for a while, would stop and switch into Conventional Mode.  It turned out that the R2LC had a latent issue and when it got warm, it stopped working.  Swapping it out fixed it.

Just a guess...

I've got 2 I need to send back.  Really a shame.   

These have the new model electronic package with the teensy radio boards in that aren't R2/R4LC style

Time to gut this engine, and cut a slot in the roof for you know what...

But its all beside the point, this is his new toy that came out of the box with issues and they continue

Matt, the much better radio board that plugs into the much better RCMC board system is a great package.  Thank goodness the modular boards are fading into history.   The F-40 was made by a new company.  Any engines after that one should be improved.  I have fixed my share of those.  

Allan, that engine does not use the out dated R4LC.  That was used with old school modular boards.  It uses the RCMC board system.  That is a great system.

John, I had one where the motor would stop for no reason.  Gave it the old school try and hit the back of the motor pins on the RCMC with a hot iron and life was good.  Knowing you, I am sure you have already looked at that.  Just wanted to share.

Got it - I forgot that my 10-wheeler is my only legacy engine with the R4LC.  My bad...

I wonder if they might be willing to send you a brand new one?

Good thing I still Kling to my K-Line units!

Marty Fitzhenry posted:

John, I had one where the motor would stop for no reason.  Gave it the old school try and hit the back of the motor pins on the RCMC with a hot iron and life was good.  Knowing you, I am sure you have already looked at that.  Just wanted to share.

I haven't removed the RCMC, however I did pop the top and check all the wiring.  I was hoping against hope that something was hitting a flywheel or there was a loose plug, but all seemed well.  I tugged on all the wires to see if anything was loose in the connector, but nothing seemed amiss.

The oddity with it having drive problems when changing the smoke settings leads me to believe it's either a voltage drop or an issue on the RCMC.  This thing doesn't have an hours running time yet, I was finally going to get it out for a real run, so much for that idea!

 I'm planning to take my F40 and Amfleet Cars to the Greenberg Show at Dulles Expo Center, Chantilly, VA  this weekend. (National Capital Trackers)

Guess I better take a Williams Amtrak Genesis unit as a back-up, just in case.

BANDOB posted:

Guess I better take a Williams Amtrak Genesis unit as a back-up, just in case.

That's a good idea.  I have my MTH Premier Genesis that I upgraded to TMCC ready to stand in for the F40PH.  Clearly, I want to go more than 5-10 minutes at the show!

I like to get out the equipment to run at the show and make sure it's all 100% functional, glad I checked the F40PH again, it did run for 20-30 minutes a couple weeks ago, obviously it doesn't age well!

The Genesis is willing and able to pull the cars.  Probably a reason that this locomotive lasted so long in Amtrak service, it holds together better.

John, I do not have that smoke unit in front of me.  Due to the fact your issue comes in with the smoke, I would look at the unit and I am sure you have done that.  If the unit has a thermister and it is hitting the element, that would be a red flag.

John, gut it and put in DCS!

Marty Fitzhenry posted:

John, I do not have that smoke unit in front of me.  Due to the fact your issue comes in with the smoke, I would look at the unit and I am sure you have done that.  If the unit has a thermister and it is hitting the element, that would be a red flag.

It's not just with smoke Marty.  I had turned the smoke off and decided to simply not use it.  After a few minutes running with no smoke, it started getting the drive motor fail code.

The issue with the smoke was the engine would simply stop at times when I changed the smoke setting.  I could get it running again by turning the throttle and I'd be moving again.

It's like it's haunted!

In a stroke of incredible luck, I bought the MTH F40PH as my first ever MTH purchase, after buying over a hundred Lionel locos in the past 30 years. Looks like I picked a great time to switch planes before the crash.

So it would appear Greg.

C&O Allie posted:

John,

Try swapping out the R4LC for one you know works.  I had a TMCC F7 that after running the engine for a while, would stop and switch into Conventional Mode.  It turned out that the R2LC had a latent issue and when it got warm, it stopped working.  Swapping it out fixed it.

Just a guess...

That is really good tip.  I have an engine that does the same thing.  It runs fine for about 20 minutes and then suddenly switches to conventional.  Of course, in command mode the voltage is turned all the way up and in conventional the engine becomes an American Flyer.

NH Joe

Since the F40PH uses the Legacy RCMC, that's not going to work for this one.

John

Im having similar issues with my CSX version. It returned from Lionel, and once again doesn't work. After you put the engine on the track, the sounds start to spaz out, and you get quite the light show. Along with that, it doesn't respond to legacy signal. Back to Lionel... I think I might just demand a new one 

J Daddy posted:

I was saved by this engines ugly looks that I never ordered one... I remember when I was a kid these came out and I thought ugh ... what a dog.

John - hope you can get yours running - good luck on the repair.

 

That's the only "modern" engine that I like, probably because it reminds me of a F-7 in sort of a Bizarro way.

Maxrailroad posted:

John

Im having similar issues with my CSX version. It returned from Lionel, and once again doesn't work. After you put the engine on the track, the sounds start to spaz out, and you get quite the light show. Along with that, it doesn't respond to legacy signal. Back to Lionel... I think I might just demand a new one 

Yours sounds like the wire routing issue that was chafing the flywheel.  Mine looks just fine inside, it appears to either be some flaky connector that I can't see or a problem on the RCMC.

This reminds one of prototypes where a few of the F40’s put into passenger service apparently lacked head end power for the rest of the train. Accordingly, their prime movers had to operate in run 8 at all times. Talk about a loud screamer in the station. Amtrak or Metrolink must have a survivor in standby service in SoCal because it came through Fullerton station quite recently. Everyone at the train watchers table would undoubtedly like to know what’s wrong with your model, John, so that they could recommend the flaw to the appropriate local locomotive service facility.

This is one purchase that I can tell I'll live to regret!

There are times I am tempted to remove the inside electronics and just put it on a shelf as a queen.

I don't buy shelf queens for that kind of money!

From what this thread sounds like, I got lucky by not ordering this particular engine. It's not my style of Locomotive, however I am sorry it's been such a disappointment for you fellows. I would send it to Lionel for repair or exchange if that could be arranged...Good Luck.

Sounds like its a bad receptacle in the motor harness or speed encoder harness. Id also check the solder points for the pins related to the plugs on the board. Double check that you don't have any cold solder joints I've seen that on the boards before.

If the smoke unit is acting weird it could be a bad RCMC it sounds like...unless something is grounding out.

If you get tired of dealing with them I'm willing to take a look at them

I'll send it back to Lionel again I guess, I don't really want to pay for a RCMC board.  I really didn't want to start ripping boards out, a brand new engine should run after a couple of trips back!

I never understood the enthusiasm for these Lionel F40s, as MTH has made very detailed and great running F40s for many, many years.  I have a LOT of them and consider them one of MTHs best efforts.  Plus MTH make a wide variety of road names and paint schemes.  Glad I stayed away from the Lionel versions.

New RailKing versions are making an appearance. Not sure if they are scale size or not (some RK diesels are) , but they will have an impressive feature set for the price. I have one scale-proportioned RK diesel and I am very happy with it.