Lionel 1948/40 Post War F-3 (early)

I'm not a variation collector per se, but I haven't personally seen this before.  Unless you know this train's whereabouts since it was new, I'm guessing that someone installed brushplates from a prewar Hudson or switcher (or even made their own) into a '48 model 2333 Santa Fe chassis.

Lionel used the tubular brush holders on all of their high-end locos until about 1949, right about the time the F3s were introduced.  I would say they switched to reduce costs, not because the wire spring style gave better performance.  So yes, this could perform better than the newer style brush plate, but not such a big difference that I would mess up a good 2343 trying to retrofit them.  My $.02, it'll be interesting to see what the real postwar experts have to say...

@Ted S posted:

I'm guessing that someone installed brushplates from a prewar...

@TRAIN COLLECTOR 2 posted:

Are these more collectable and or rare? Also, do they perform any less than motors with plastic brush plate cover?

They are factory, as produced. I have a 2333 with these motors.

No difference in performance, not collectible.

I think they were like that in all the 1948~1955ish F3s. They started using a vertical worm drive pullmor type motor after '55. They perform as well as any postwar lionel motor can. They make a somewhat unique grumble/growl

Here's mine. Just picked these up last year and think they were 49 issue because of the rolling stock. The rare early f3's are rubber stamped, not sure if mine are.

@woodsyT posted:

I think they were like that in all the 1948~1955ish F3s...

48-49 only. The 1950-up used the 622 style 2343-119.

@ADCX Rob posted:

I think they were...

"48-49 only. The 1950-up used the 622 style 2343-119."

👍-the most important word there is 'think' 🤔🙄. I took six or eight minutes and read a few articles, and you are correct🫡. My grandad's handwritten sticky notes on the bottom of these engines has me wondering now - it appears it could be that all three of my F3's are 48-49 frames with mixed shells from 1948~195X. At least one of them has a swapped shell.

Wow, very good information from all of you and thank you for the pictures. This was the first time I saw these Lionel open frame motors. I have two 2343 Santa Fe's, 2344 NYC & 2345 WP and they all have the plastic (Bakelite I think) brush plate covers. And have seen many 2333 SF's at train shows (with shell removed) and this was the first one I ever seen, they too had the plastic brush plate cover.

Thanks again all!

All 2333’s that I have ever seen (that haven’t been Mickey-Moused) had the fiberboard brush plates. The Bakelite brush plates began with the 2343’s in 1950.

No idea why Lionel initially designed the brush plates like this but I bet the labor and number of parts to build them is why they moved to a molded Bakelite part.