Lionel 2285W set question

No transformers were included in O gauge sets of that period. Larger 027 sets usually had a 1033 transformer included.

Bum:

Exactly which “Lionel” site did you access to get that information?

Bill

I guess the site is a little deceptive as it comes up as Lionel-train-set.com with no mention of another company but there is a link to sell sets to whomever owns that site.  Anyway I did scroll down and found the description of the 2285W and Chuck is correct in stating that there is no transformer included.  There does however seem to be a lot of space left in the box when everything is in there.  On the bottom of the box was an old 1957 Lionel catalog that shows the 2331 with the 5 cars and states that if purchased separately would be $39.95 but it does not mention a set number only to ask your Lionel dealer about the complete outfit and only he can price it.

I will consider my question answered by chuck.

Thanks again,

Bum

Bum: Thanks for that link.

Bill

Yes, it amazes me that Lionel LLC allows use of their name in all sorts of Web Site URLs.  There is also a lioneltrainsets.com site that is an internet only retailer...  

I used to work for Intel and they had very strict rules about use of their name and would sue anyone that used it or implied endorsement or any other unauthorized use.  I guess Lionel has gone through too many transformations to enforce such a policy?  Still, I wish they would because it weakens the brand and endangers customers to being scammed or otherwise misled.  

I doubt Lionel can do anything to protect the name on the internet.

While not exactly common, "Lionel" is a given (first) name. Here are a couple of "Lionel"s:

Lionel Hampton

Lionel Jefferies

Lionel Messi

Lionel Richie

Lionel Barrymore

Joshua Lionel Cowen

And there are (were?) even other companies named Lionel:

Lionel plastic combs

Lionel travel trailers

Lionel Snowmobiles.

Ah but there is recourse when the use of the name is in a similar product category,  It is no doubt trademarked.  Just like the term "intel" is commonly used to refer to Intelligence gathering, anyone that uses it to imply association with or producing products similar to Intel branded products is subject to restrictions.  While Lionel trains sounds like Kleenex or some other common use of branded name products categories, it is still protected.  I just wish Lionel LLC would enforce it.    We know MTH got rights to the Lionel Tinplate name use in a legal settlement.  Use of Lionel in a Web Site Name to sell trains should also be restricted and limited.

 Lionel had the opportunity to buy the domain name at one point, but did not do so, someone else bought the rights. I don't know the exact in, and outs of it, but my bosses son bought tens of thousands of names for under a penny each I think, and sold them. He got rich in about two years. 

In the postwar period (1945-69), 027 sets generally came with a transformer of some type, the bigger and more expensive the set, the bigger the transformer. Also, 027 sets led by a locomotive with horn or whistle required a transformer that could activate it. There were a few "engine-and-cars-only" sets sold, but those also lacked track.

The O gauge sets did not contain transformers in the postwar years. They were sold separately.

I see there is a site Lionelstore.com that sells Lionel trains.  Is that part of Lionel LLC or another independent?  This is a little confusing.

Bum

Lionelstore is a Lionel LLC site as you can tell from the link at the lionel.com page.  But it does bring up an interesting situation in that as you said it is confusing.  Here's a couple of things to consider.  Companies must defend their trademarks in order to keep them from being diluted and once that happens they become indefensible.  

As for use in URLS this little tidbit from the trademark wiki makes it pretty clear that URLS cannot be "cybersquatted":  "In the US, the legal situation was clarified by the Anticybersquatting Consumer Protection Act, an amendment to the Lanham Act, which explicitly prohibited cybersquatting. It defines cybersquatting as "(occurring) when a person other than the trademark holder registers the domain name of a well-known trademark and then attempts to profit from this by either ransoming the domain name back to the trademark holder or using the domain name to divert business from the trademark holder to the domain name holder".^[36] The provision states that "[a] person shall be liable in a civil action by the owner of the mark ... if, without regard to the goods or services of the person, that person (i) had a bad faith intent to profit from the mark ...; and registers, traffics in, or uses domain name [that is confusingly similar to another's mark or dilutes another's mark]".^[37]"

But more to the point, sure these sites are confusing but do they compete?  In other words are they selling competing merchandise?  No not really since its Lionel branded products for the most part, but they do compete with LionelStore.com for sure.  Its a topic thats a sore point with many sponsors I am sure. Which brings us back to the original concern, is it a real Lionel site or not?  Seems to me that Lionel ought to be issuing Cease and Desist orders, if for no other purpose than to defend their trademark.