Lionel 6-12081 Turnout

What turnout?

cjack posted:

What turnout?

Check the subject line.

Pete

OK, a Lionel #6-12081 Switch Track.  I'm on G Scale Central alot and in England it's a turnout.   So would anyone have a clue as to what might be going wrong all of a sudden ?

All of a sudden seems odd, but it just about has to be the anti-derailing rail that is shorted to the outside rail. I see you checked the insulating pins. I guess I would take it apart and trace how it could be. First check the continuity between the rail and the outside rail and confirm that it shorted together somehow.

I looked it up in parts to see if I could get some idea of how it's made inside, etc. but the switch did not come up. I'll try something besides the part number.

Thanks Chuck, I hadn't thought of that.  I'll take a closer look.  

Disconnect the controller and test the turnout operation by jumpering the controller terminals with a piece of wire to eliminate controller failure or perhaps a spare controller.

The fiber pins for non-derail should be on the inside rails on the turnout and the thru on the against the points side.

Has voltage dropped for any reason at the turnout? The coils need about 14v. Not enough voltage could make it hang or chatter.

I disconnected the controller and opened it up.  All seems to be in order inside, i.e., not bare wires touching anything they shouldn't.  

I then touched the appropriate binding posts with a piece of wire and got the same chattering.  

As much as I hate to remove the turnout, it's going to have to be done.  It has to be something inside that can only be accessed to from below, ugh !

I dismantled the RH switch as it's not mounted to the table yet.  It's very simple inside, but I can see where it would be possible for one of the wires to have been compromised and maybe touching one of the bus bars.  Unlikely but possible.

The only other thing I can think of would be the PCB in the motor housing.  Perhaps something went wrong in there.  There are two black flat head screws that hold the motor cover in place.  I discovered them accidentally when I had the RH switch open.

More experimentation today perhaps. 

I purchased these second hand but new, so I doubt that I can send them to Lionel for any kind of warranty service.  

OK, all is lost.  I dismantled the switch track today.  Checked everything that looked like it could go wrong.  Found nothing.  Re-assembled it all and no luck.  Since the turnout is at the front of the layout, I have decided to manually operate it.  It's just not worth any more time fiddling with it.  

Dan,

It would have helped if you posted a photo. The obvious cause of the chatter is the placement of the fiber or insulating pins is incorrect.

next, I found in an excerpt of a repair manual for the older style, mention of the sliding pieces internally grounding and causing chatter.

frustrated as you may be, there is a repair. I don't run these, so I can't guess which one that you have. They are simple and can be made to work.

Here is a link to the OWNER'S MANUAL for the switch in question, Lionel 6-12081.  I believe it to be the old K-Line snap switch.  Similarities to the classic O-22s are superficial.

Pete

Thanks Pete.  I have all of the paperwork already.  I'm convinced, as others have said on these forums, that the design leaves alot to be desired.  The motor inside is minuscule.  

Carl, the link you have there is for an O22 Lionel switch track.  The switch track I have is an O42 new design that is nothing like the O22 mechanically.  Now if Lionel were to produce the O42 made the same way as the old O22, I'd buy one in a New York minute.  

Dan,

I hate to be negative about the Lionel switch but if you want one that works with remote control and won't just up & quit then go with Gargraves or Ross switches. I had 5 Lionel # 6-23010 switches go bad on me during the mid 90's. 

It's not the insulating pins! I had extreme problems with the newer Lionel switches in O gauge tubular and had to go with Gargraves about 7 years ago.

Lee Fritz

Those are 042 O gauge switches from 2007 to 2012. Best bet is to replace the switch motors with DZ-1000 or DZ-2500 from DZ Industries. Ross has those for sale on their website. 

Better yet just replace the whole switch!

Lee Fritz

phillyreading posted:

It's not the insulating pins! I had extreme problems with the newer Lionel switches in O gauge tubular and had to go with Gargraves about 7 years ago.

Lee Fritz

Any chance you remember what the issue was inside the switch if you fixed it?

cjack posted:

phillyreading posted:

It's not the insulating pins! I had extreme problems with the newer Lionel switches in O gauge tubular and had to go with Gargraves about 7 years ago.

Lee Fritz

Any chance you remember what the issue was inside the switch if you fixed it?

I sold 4 of those switches off real cheap. I don't know how to repair them as they use newer electronics.

I was having some really severe problems with the switches, one problem was flickering power-it looked like a flashing light bulb was added in series with the power to the switch, another problem was being used with Williams engines-the switch went bonkers (threw the switch piece at about 50 times a second)when "any Williams engine" approached it(no other brand did this).

I called Lionel service department as these were new switches at the time, and their reply was "We have not experienced anything like this with them." They refused to address my issues with the switches so I went to Gargraves switches & track.

Lee Fritz

If Ross comes out with an O42 switch, in their new tin plate line of switch tracks, I'll go for it.  

Dan Padova posted:

Thanks Pete.  I have all of the paperwork already.

I'm hip.  I knew that from a previous thread about this switch.  I put the OWNER'S MANUAL LINK up so Moonman Carl could see that you're not dealing with an O-22 type switch.

I have a NIB RH version purchased some time ago from Model Train Stuff at a ridiculously low price.  I got it with a "future" project in  mind.  Guess I better fire it up, see if it works.

Pete