Lionel 6-28072 Hudson does not run Installed new Radio board

Just to be sure with the new R2LC did you program per the manual? Here’s a screenshot of that page.
If so it’s possible the FET drivers off the DCDS are shot. Someone else with some more experienced should also chime in. I also assume all wires from the DCDS to the motor are secured. 

Did you test conventional to see if you have movement?...need to know a little more before condemning motor driver....when you tested the motor with DC, was it still hooked up to the driveline?...was that smooth?....any binding locking up of the mechanism?.....

Pat

The reset code for that engine is 74, typical for most tmcc steam. Try that. If it won't run in either conventional or command mode you likely need a new dcds board. You should also check the motherboard for any sign of burned traces etc.

Rod

As Harmon suggested try it in conventional first. If it still doesn't run reseat the connectors. The DCDS board requires both the black 4 pin connector located between the power devices and the white 4 pin JST connector be plugged in. The black connector carries power to the motor. The white connector gives the direction signals. Check for bent or missing pins or any pushed out of their housings.

BTW why did you replace the R2LC?

Pete

Another thing to try. When the engine should be running, wiggle the wires on the black plug. This is a Molex brand of connector. They are notorious for bad crimping of the wires. And there is no way to fix them. Once the wire is inserted in the plug, there is no way to remove it. 

Actually, there is a removal tool for the black Molex connector, though it's somewhat of a PITA to get them out anyway.  You have to insert the tool on each side a few times and flex it, then the connector pin will slide out.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Actually, there is a removal tool for the black Molex connector, though it's somewhat of a PITA to get them out anyway.  You have to insert the tool on each side a few times and flex it, then the connector pin will slide out.

 

GRJ, are there any tools for the white Molex connectors??; I think they are used heavily in my Big Boy.

The white connectors are not Molex.  What specific product number?  It's likely they're to be Leoco connectors.  The good news is, there are JST equivalents.  The 2.5mm connectors are JST-EH, the 2.0mm connectors are JST-PH, and the 1.5mm connectors are JST-ZH.  This encompasses a vast majority of the connectors used in TMCC & Legacy.  The really small 1.25mm connectors used Legacy stuff are Molex PicoBlade 1.25mm.

With any of the above, all you need is a really tiny flat blade screwdriver or an X-Acto blade to lift the locking tab slightly to release the contact.

The connectors that started this conversation are the Molex Micro-Fit 3.0mm connectors, Digikey has the removal tools.

Thanks GRJ; your info will go into my maintenance notes!!

 To answer most  of the suggestions. No movement in conventional or TMCC  I reset the code 74, no response. I tried reverse the lights do not change. no tower com, or crewtalk. It seems like I'm not getting a signal removed DCDS, rqdio  & mother boards Checked f/burn traces. unplugged all  wires and plugs checked continuity Reinstalled all boards. Did a reset 74  tried forward and wiggled wires and plugs and still nothing. I was asked why I changed the radio board, I was under the assumption that controls gets signals from command base, like go ,stop, forward ,reverse, speed, coupler , smoke, horn & bell.  Maybe its time to get  a new DCDS board and is it possible I shorted out my radio board since I'm not getting any signals, Keep suggesting i'll keep trying  Thanks all

Make sure track power is getting into the Oddesy driver(hot & not), if so, then it sounds like, it’s Cruise M upgrade time....it’ll be a much better upgrade anyways....If you do go Cruise M, verify operation with a known good radio board...

Pat

For tender lights and sounds you need signal through the tether. Uncouple the tender from the engine and move it away from it. Then apply power and check for sounds. If you hear sounds signal is not getting to the LED in the engine drawbar. Report back.

Pete

At first you said you got lights and smoke, and now not? That sounds like the radio board. Sound like the only thing left as far as movement is the DCDS board.

Still have lights & smoke. Lights do not change when I push direction button. I don't know whether the radio board isn't working again on 74

Norton I uncoupled the tender moved it away, applied power still have idle sounds from tender

I think it may be time to independently test the R2LC and DCDS outside the locomotive.  If you replaced the R2LC and the new one doesn't recognize the TMCC signal, I'd be a bit worried that you're cooking them with some flaw in the wiring.

If testing with the boiler shell off, do you have adequate antenna for the tmcc signal? Does the engine respond to startup command?

Rod

I would check the odyssey board as it has to be isolated from the heat sink it is attached to. There are small plastic insulators inside the screws and nut that hold the board there. Could be one of the plastic insulators has melted, hence the board is not isolated any longer which equals blown DCDS board. 

Use a meter to check for continuity-there should be none, no reading between the heat sink and the odyssey board. If so, you got a problem there.

@JimmyT posted:

Norton I uncoupled the tender moved it away, applied power still have idle sounds from tender

If you uncoupled the tender and moved it away from the loco,...you will have start up and idle sounds, .....the tender has its own power pickups, and since it’s out of sight of the IR, it’s starting up in conventional .....

I’d do as others have mentioned, it’s time for some individual component testing....and if the boiler shell is off, make doubly sure the stripped end of the antenna wire makes no contact anywhere but the air....bad things can happen.....like magic smoke.....

Pat

On this engine, serial data only goes to two places. The DCDS and tether LED. Try removing the ten pin connector from the DCDS, couple the tender to the engine and see if sounds work in TMCC mode. If you get sounds it implies the DCDS is killing the serial data. If no sounds then disconnect the connector that has the wires from the the tether to the motherboard. You should be able to follow them. Reconnect the 10 pin connector to the DCDS. If you now get movement then the problem is the LED. If no movement then the R2LC is not producing serial data or a trace or pin is not connected.

Pete

I don't know that the serial data even goes to the Odyssey, on most of that vintage, they just have a couple of the pins on J4 grounded, and the others feeding LED class lights.

Pin 1 on the ten pin connector to the DCDS has serial data just like a Cruise M.

Pete

It's not used on many of them, I've removed several that had no serial data and I had to run a wire to them.  I know the board has it marked, it did surprised me that it wasn't actually used.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

It's not used on many of them, I've removed several that had no serial data and I had to run a wire to them.  I know the board has it marked, it did surprised me that it wasn't actually used.

On the J3’s at least, it’s used ......makes the M swap even easier when the oddly drive poops itself..😉....

Pat

You have to also worry about the wire from pin-2 to pin-10 of J4, that one needs to be removed for CC-M installs.

JimmyT,

Let the forum know if you are able to independently test/verify the motor control board is working.

One other thing to check, which should be fairly easy, verify you have track voltage going to the motor control board.  I have run across a couple of repairs, where the wire was not making a good connection, even though it was wire nutted.  In another case, I found the power leads were not wire correctly.  I think there is a red wire from the center rail that goes to the black Molex connector that you would be able to see (18v) voltage using a meter.

Best, Dave

This is where something like this comes in handy.  This test fixture allows me to test most TMCC modular boards as well as DCDR, DCDS, ERR CC-M, and early Legacy modular boards.

After replacing all wires in the 6 pin Molex (to motor, pickup, ground, &  to the 2 pin Molex on the mother board.        Engine starts up in conventional  or TMCC , Runs for about 20 to 30 seconds & stops.  No short, lights stay on . try to restart right away & I get the same thing.

Finally I took the motor, DCDS, motherboard w/radio board completely out of the chassis w/drive rods & smoke unit. To isolate the main components. When hooked up to power it does the same thing. Runs, them stops no shorts

I checked continuity from the bottom of the boards where the Molex solder joints are to wherever the wires terminate. The DCDS & Radio boards (code 74) are new  Any ideas?  I do not have wiring schematic to  verify the correct position of all wires just the pictures when I disassembled it.

Jimmy,

What was done (compared to its operation in August of last year) to get the engine to run albeit for only the 20-30 seconds?  Do you think it was the new motor control board?

With the DCDS removed, and with DC power supplied directly to the motor, does the motor continue to run without issue (more than the 30 seconds)?  I would test in both forward and reverse rotation.

With the new DCDS and R2LC boards installed; does the engine stop after 30 seconds when going forward and does it stop after 30 seconds when going in reverse?

Did you confirm there is isolation as Ted mentioned above between the DCDS and the heat sink metal?

It sounds like something is failing after it warms up.  The above tests might help to determine if this is the case, especially if it runs OK in reverse, but shuts down in the forward operation.

I'd be interested in some close-ups of the DCDS board, etc., if you have them.

Best,
Dave

Re-flow the solder joints of the Molex connectors on the boards, regardless of the continuity readings you got. I won't get into a long why here, but it may solve your problem.

(Dissipate static to protect any electronics)

Dave

That test setup shown in JRG's 8/21/20 post is an absolute must for serious loco system alteration work. Can save a lot of time making sure that the electronic circuit boards are performing properly before installing in a loco.

When GRJ decides to market that test unit,. what ever he charges it has to be well worth it. I have 3 different  MTH units. but I've never seen one made for Lionel.  It hard to check the boards to make sure they are ok.               Answers to questions about DCDS  problem. Motor ran n. f/5  minutes in a each direction. The DCDS board is completely isolated from the bracket. I retouched the 6 solder joints under the Molex connectors. I'll try to send closeups of the DCDS board and any photos you want to see   This my first time trying to add attachments so please be patient.