Lionel 6-84472 AT & SF Legacy Brass Hybrid Mikado #3222

Brian K posted:

I was told to bring it to my local service center (my local dealer) for him to repair. I would never have added insult to injury to ask him to repair an engine that he did not sell me or even have an opportunity to profit from.

I wouldn't assume that the local dealer doesn't profit from the warranty repairs he makes, through some sort of reimbursement from Lionel - like car dealerships that are required to make warranty repairs, including on cars that weren't purchased at the dealership, and are reimbursed by the manufacturer.

Maybe Lionel does it differently, but it's hard to imagine that a Lionel dealer would be required to do warranty repairs for free, particularly on engines that were only sold through the company. I suppose it's possible, but you could call Lionel back and ask them if your local dealer would get paid for the warranty repairs he has to make on your engine. I'd also ask the local dealer if he has the ability to do potentially complicated electronic repairs on these engines. If not, clearly you'll have to send it back to Lionel again, or to a third party repair shop (which, of course, would be on your nickle). 

My advice? Contact Dean Brasseur who is really very consumer friendly. Dean will get your locomotive repaired properly and you will have something very special. BTW, be certain to check your layout to make certain any signal issues are resolved.

Hi Brian-

Looks like you are relatively new to the forum and yes the business has changed considerably over the past couple of years.

Note this Hybrid is a special release and regardless if you bought a new engine, or this hybrid the repair procedure is the same. Cutting the dealer out on this release has nothing to do with repairs.

Your dealer cannot always replace any new locomotive anymore with a new one, especially if it was a BTO item

I know its sometimes frustrating to work with the repair dept. but give them another chance. Dave Olson has also helped me out in the past.

The good news is Lionel will give you a refund on your purchase.

Again -NONE of my LHS repair trains, they deal with the same problem but have to foot the shipping  bill themselves.

I have had engines repaired in the past, and sometimes they had to go back twice. But I was always taken care of.

If you don't want your engine I know someone that does.

Scrapiron Scher posted:

My advice? Contact Dean Brasseur who is really very consumer friendly. Dean will get your locomotive repaired properly and you will have something very special. BTW, be certain to check your layout to make certain any signal issues are resolved.

Thanks- I will try that.

BK

breezinup posted:

Brian K posted:

I was told to bring it to my local service center (my local dealer) for him to repair. I would never have added insult to injury to ask him to repair an engine that he did not sell me or even have an opportunity to profit from.

I wouldn't assume that the local dealer doesn't profit from the warranty repairs he makes, through some sort of reimbursement from Lionel - like car dealerships that are required to make warranty repairs, including on cars that weren't purchased at the dealership, and are reimbursed by the manufacturer.

Maybe Lionel does it differently, but it's hard to imagine that a Lionel dealer would be required to do warranty repairs for free, particularly on engines that were only sold through the company. I suppose it's possible, but you could call Lionel back and ask them if your local dealer would get paid for the warranty repairs he has to make on your engine. I'd also ask the local dealer if he has the ability to do potentially complicated electronic repairs on these engines. If not, clearly you'll have to send it back to Lionel again, or to a third party repair shop (which, of course, would be on your nickle). 

My assumption is not that they are not reimbursed, but that they cut out the dealers completely. The automotive analogy is not the same. In this case, it would be like GMC selling their trucks directly to the consumer and expecting the local dealer to handle the problems. Lionel exists because of the local dealers and us loyal customers. I have also sent trains back to Lionel before, my issue is with this particular locomotive.

Brian,

If you have an issue with Lionel and how they cut out the dealer to market test this engine. I would take it up directly with them and not try stir up a lot of muck here on the forum.

That's not what this forum is for.

Brian K posted:

The automotive analogy is not the same. In this case, it would be like GMC selling their trucks directly to the consumer and expecting the local dealer to handle the problems. 

I think the example is similar. Hypothetical question, but I don't think the local car dealer would have a problem with that as long as they were fully paid to do the repairs. From what I've been told, dealerships make a lot more from their repair services than from new car sales anyway. Repairs are their bread and butter. They don't mind doing warranty repairs on cars bought from another dealer, after all. They're paid for it just the same. Well, enough with the analogy!

It is my assumption that a forum for any hobby or issue, is to discuss general and specific problems members are having. I have participated in other discussions on this forum on many of the fun things that I love about this hobby, but this seemed like something that others might like to hear. I didn't know that you were in charge of what was discussed here.

Brian K posted:

It is my assumption that a forum for any hobby or issue, is to discuss general and specific problems members are having. I have participated in other discussions on this forum on many of the fun things that I love about this hobby, but this seemed like something that others might like to hear. I didn't know that you were in charge of what was discussed here.

And that there is the problem.

Contact Dave on your repair item, and share with us on your success.

I also like to support my local dealers. I'm lucky to have 2 that are within 20 driving minutes from my home. I always order and purchase all my high end products from them. Never a problem with a replacement or repair.  

Something I plan on doing to trouble shoot my problematic engines is to set up a simple test loop, totally isolated from my main layout. If the engine performs fine there, then I have a layout issue that I need to address. This has helped when I first started using MTH DCS, when it was first hit the dealers. I had a very simple loop set up exactly as MTH recommended and it proved that the New DCS system I purchased was faulty.  My dealer replaced 3 before the problem no longer existed, proving that the TIU was the culprit.

Unfortunately these very complicated toys do not always run right out of the box. I only wish I had the knowledge to troubleshoot these items without always resorting to sending them back.

As I also like to support my local dealer, I dropped off my unpainted Brass Hybrid at my favorite hobby shop for service. The whistle smoke fan appears to have quit, though it still generates smoke for whistle.

So if they can bill Lionel for the warranty work, it will be covered. Otherwise, I plan to pay out of pocket for the repair unless it’s something major. They will let me know what they find and we will then determine the best solution.

I was also concerned about having the engine possibly damaged in shipping.

BrianK, I don't know if you are comfortable with opening up your engine, but I had a similar problem to yours.  It would respond to the BluTooth controller (Lionel's app on my Iphone) but not TMCC.  Communicating with Dave Olsen, he thought a board may have come loose in shipping.  Taking the shell off, that was fine, but Dave had warned me to make sure the insulating washers were all there when reassembling the shell as it was used for the antenna rather than the handrails.  That is when I discovered the problem, one of the washers was missing so the shell was grounding, disabling the antenna.  Put one in its place (along with all the others), then reassembled the shell and it ran fine - still does.

Interesting about the washers. I wonder if Lionel could have forgotten one a second time. Although, doesn't Lionel repair run the engine for a few loops after a repair? In that case, a loose a loose board sounds more likely as it could have happened in return shipping. It sounds like Dave Olsen has had experience in that regard.

cjack posted:

Interesting about the washers. I wonder if Lionel could have forgotten one a second time. Although, doesn't Lionel repair run the engine for a few loops after a repair? In that case, a loose a loose board sounds more likely as it could have happened in return shipping. It sounds like Dave Olsen has had experience in that regard.

In the past they were said to run them for 3 hours on the a layout.  Not sure if that has changed.

PeterA posted:

BrianK, I don't know if you are comfortable with opening up your engine, but I had a similar problem to yours.  It would respond to the BluTooth controller (Lionel's app on my Iphone) but not TMCC.  Communicating with Dave Olsen, he thought a board may have come loose in shipping.  Taking the shell off, that was fine, but Dave had warned me to make sure the insulating washers were all there when reassembling the shell as it was used for the antenna rather than the handrails.  That is when I discovered the problem, one of the washers was missing so the shell was grounding, disabling the antenna.  Put one in its place (along with all the others), then reassembled the shell and it ran fine - still does.

That could be the issue. As I originally wrote, I had to power the track on and off over 30 times before the "set" command would work. It allowed for three or fours commands, then went dark again. It could be a short or loose board. I am going to send it back to Lionel once more. I do really like the looks of the locomotive and think it is worth the effort. Its just frustrating.

The shell is the antenna on this engine and I've found it can be finicky. We do run them all after they're repaired, but in shipping the parts can shift and the shell can short to the frame, killing the TMCC signal. Since they're all hand made, each one is different. I've repaired a few. The easiest way to check is to do a continuity check between the shell and frame. 

Sorry to hear yours returned with the same issue. Send it back and let Dean know if you can. If not, email me and I'll let him know. 

The next brass hybrid will have the handrails as the antennas again. A much easier method. 

Thanks

Dave

thanks for responding even after hours.   they dont pay you enough!!

Dave Olson posted:

 

The next brass hybrid will have the handrails as the antennas again.  

 

...

OK.  "The next"???

Any hints????

.

.

.

BTW...  Have the 3222.  Conventional runner, here.  Moreso....ATSF maven. 

And, the day I heard the announcement and saw first photos of the hybrid  ATSF Mikado, it took me back about 65 years....to when I first saw the 2333/2343 Warbonnet F's!  Palpitations and anticipations all over again!!

Big THANK YOU! for all you do.

KD

Dave Olson posted:

The shell is the antenna on this engine and I've found it can be finicky. We do run them all after they're repaired, but in shipping the parts can shift and the shell can short to the frame, killing the TMCC signal. Since they're all hand made, each one is different. I've repaired a few. The easiest way to check is to do a continuity check between the shell and frame. 

Sorry to hear yours returned with the same issue. Send it back and let Dean know if you can. If not, email me and I'll let him know. 

The next brass hybrid will have the handrails as the antennas again. A much easier method. 

Thanks

Dave- Thanks for the response. I am still waiting for the email with my RA number, and I would like you to take another shot at repairing it. I really appreciate the concern and the possible reason for the failure. I can give you a number to call if you think it would help.

Brian

J Daddy posted:

See?! Every time I have an issue with a new Lionel product, Dave is always the Man!

Ok, so here are the compiled clues from Ryan about the NEW HYBRID!

1) It will be a locomotive East of the Mississippi.

2) It will be a locomotive with LESS detail than the first version due to some semi streamline portions of the boiler

3) It will be a class of locomotive that has not been done before in O ( I believe by Lionel/MTH/Kline/Atlas/Williams)

4) The announcement will be made on Volume 2 catalog time frame.

 

And that my friends is all that can be revealed:

My guess initially was the N.C.& St. L 4-8-4 Dixie cab no. 576!

Wouldn't that be nice?!

 

DANG!

I had a different set of Clues!  Combining your clues and my clues, now I think I know what it is!

My clue #1 was the same, but rest were different...  Maybe they tell everyone different clues to rial us up and it will really be a western engine!

Dang!

Eastern railroad, semi streamlined, how about a D&H Northern!

I'm amazed how this post has gone from I'd like to get my NEW $1200.00 Lionel hybrid running to, OH BOY, I can't wait to see what the next one is going to be! More hints please!!!

I think the other clue as I recall is no whistle steam. Because the whistle is hidden. 

My other friends believe it may be a PRR. K5?