Any one else see that WP 6464 orange and blue boxcar go for $23,500 just a few moments ago?
Wow. Who's complaining about Vision Line engine prices again?
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Either a SERIOUS collector, or someone with more money than sense! The collector mindset is entirely a "horse of a different color"!
Have an item #? It's not showing up for me in the sold listings yet, but you made me curious.
-Dave
I don't see it either.
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Crazy, It's a $500. to $700. car without the correct box. With the correct box it is worth about $1000. to $1400. depending on the condition of the box.
There on some pretty good meds to think it's worth that
Whats special about it?
@eddie g posted:Whats special about it?
Haha... IDK. I should have put some air quotes around that, sarcasm never comes across the Internet that well. 
I sure would like to find one of those cars somewhere. I'd sell it to that guy for half what he paid and buy a bunch of Premier steam and maybe a Vision Line Big Boy.
Thanks, I will take my modern remake at 30 bucks.
Pete
With so many Americans who have lost their jobs as a result of Corona, others losing all their life long treasures as a result of the killer fires currently raging out of control in the west, paying $23,500.00 leaves me speechless. Gads, most of us remember when you could purchase a new home for this amount. It would be interesting to learn how much the Lionel layout shown on the rear cover of the 1957 catalog would cost today. The reason I mention it is because it remains my all time favorite Lionel layout to this day, period!
Please stop for a moment and say a prayer for all the wonderful Americans who are fighting for survival while you are busy operating your trains in the comfort of your very own home. I imagine there's a few model railroaders who have lost their trains in these fires too? I wonder if the new proud owner of Western Pacific 6464-100 will take out insurance on this rare Lionel boxcar? Personally, this variation to me, is ugly. I've always considered the aluminum painted cars with large orange feather that decorated the entire length of the car the most attractive boxcar that the WP rostered from the Get Go!
I guess I would have had more luck finding it on the proper auction site! 
Does seem crazy, but I'd defer to others with more Post War expertise on all the various body types to confirm the rarity as claimed in the auction text. If it's truly very rare to have this car with the Type I body, who can say?
-Dave
I found a Stifle lamp at the Salvation Army Store for $5.95 this afternoon; I'll sell it for $23,499.99.... any takers? (ha! ha!)
So much for the demise of Postwar.
What is special about it is the four rows of rivets on the right hand side that run from top to bottom. Counting from the left this means the WP logo is printed over the third rivet column. Later body molds removed this row of rivets for ease with respect to logo printing (a total of 29 rivets)....so, if you are a rivet counter it would appear this matters a great deal. Specifically, the same car, but missing the 29 rivets, sold for $700 ... so 23,500 - 700 = 22,800 which divide by 29 = 786 dollars and change per rivet. 
To add to what Robert said, it's also the 2nd column of rivets on the left side of the car. The more common ones have a big gap, with just a few on the top and a few on the bottom.
The one that went for the big bucks was one of the Type I's with an additional group of (what looks like to me) 4 rivets. Just to the right of the "N" in Western, right in the middle of the feather graphic.
The ones that have recently sold for $600-$750 on eBay recently are not of this type, they all lack the column Robert called out for the right side of the car, and also the extra rivets in column 2.
I found this Tandem page educational. While aware of this in general terms, I had none of this in my head before looking this up this afternoon. I learned something!
So with the 4 extra rivets in column 2, we are down to just under $691 per extra rivet! 
-Dave
Dave45681....these details are absolutely riveting!
The modern repros have no breaks in the rivets. At $691 per rivet this one has be worth about $3000 more than the auction car. I will consider lower offers, though.
Pete
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Not for me... You could buy a beautiful model train collection for that price and still have enough left over to build a layout on which to run it. Sometimes, it's better to be satisfied with less... Just my opinion.
MELGAR
......and to think all this time I thought it was only members of the Proto48 family who belonged to the Grand Order of Rivet Counters?
Item: I'll be more than happy if I win $23,500.00 in the Saturday Lottery.
MELGAR: You're absolutely right from the Get Go! Sometimes in life, less is more.
@john in western pa posted:I found a Stifle lamp at the Salvation Army Store for $5.95 this afternoon; I'll sell it for $23,499.99.... any takers? (ha! ha!)
Contact the Army
So a 6464-100 goes for $23,500, wow!!! And to think I was amazed when the 6464-250 on that auction site went for $250! And I have an original 6464-250 that I bought from Madison Hardware when I was 16 and used it for display only since then.
If I was an heir to the buyer, I would NOT be happy about his purchase. In not-too-long a time, the car is going to be worth a lot, lot less.
Of course, if the fellow has that much money to burn, I suppose it’s small potatoes anyway.
The price did not get to $23,500 on its own. Don't forget there had to be two or more like-minded bidders to reach that selling price.
A collector friend tells me that one of these WP boxcars sold for $75,000. I don't know when. It was a record price.
I wonder if $23,500 is a bargain or just represents a decline in price. NH Joe
I believe the $75,000 WP was the "1954" super rare version that sold almost 10 years ago. I'm sure collectors today would pay more than that to get it.
I also believe it was bought by a gentleman in Northern Illinois.
An error!! I was re-reading this thread today and suddenly realized both Dave45681 and I made a serious error - we only counted the rivets on one side of the car! So, the actual premium of $22, 800 was for a total of 66 rivets - not 33. Thus, the total cost per rivet is $22,800/66 = $345.45. As I'm sure everyone will agree - this is a much more realistic and acceptable figure.
Living proof....P.T.BARNUM was right!
An object is only really worth what someone is actually willing to pay for it, period!
Plastic Fantastic? Not for me.
On the other hand, I personally believe this extremely rare Lionel creation would look it's very best when observed running on a layout set up in a homeless shelter.*
* Attention all artists: Out of work? Then why not consider drawing a cartoon based on the above for submission to MAD magazine for publication? Afterall, isn't this the kind of cheap trash that should be expected to be found in such a long running sorry excuse of a magazine?
What, me worry?
On a serious note, if you know anyone who has fallen on hard times and can help them in anyway possible, please do what you can. Believe me, this is much more rewarding than spending thousands of $$$ on some rare plastic box car, which doesn't even carry a load of FEEL GOOD in it!
73
J. Toth Jr.
TRBB: Well stated, and with amusing humor, my friend!
@MELGAR posted:Not for me... You could buy a beautiful model train collection for that price and still have enough left over to build a layout on which to run it. Sometimes, it's better to be satisfied with less... Just my opinion.
MELGAR
For $23,500 I would rather buy a vintage 60s muscle car. At least I could get my money back over time.
If my wife knew I had this car she make me sell it to pay for remodeling a bathroom.
Good thing she doesn't know a box-car from a __________________ ( you fill it in.)
I regret I was never in a position where I could purchase the streamlined Louisville & Nashville sleeping car Florida Surf from Jim Herron. Jim is a well known railfan and runs a business where he offers train videos for sale. He sold the car to Mexico's NdeM. It would be interesting to know how much they paid for it? The end to this sad story is that the car fell into a state of decay. I don't have any recent information on it but hope it hasn't gone to scrap even if I'll never have the opportunity to own it. Wonder if I could pick it up for $23,500.00? Just think, my very own 1:1 scale private passenger car. WOW!
Larry Neal: I'm also a fan of the Family Lines, before and after all the M-Days. Is there anyplace where we can see your models? Though I'm not a member of the TCA, I was a close friend of TCA member, the late Chester The Most Holley, who ran the neatest little train shop you ever did see in Tampa, FL, and founded the Southern Division. Visit their site and read the history how Chester and his wife Margo got the wheels rolling to form the TCA SD.
AlanRail: OK, with your permission, I'll fill in the blank...Caboose...LOL
73
Joseph Toth Jr.
Chester Holley was indeed a true TCA legend and consummate collector by all accounts. Wish I had had a chance to visit his fine shop back in the day!
I still have mine form Madison Hardware,1967? Never seen that car with those older trucks only plastic.
Used to visit Chester's every month back in the day. Dennis B. on Gulf to Bay sold all the Lionel stuff at half the cost.
Why all the negativity?
Whoever purchased the car had made the money and choose this item to spend it on! Why be so critical? Do you share the same outrage when someone purchases a $300,000 vehicle. Have you considered that the person who had the auction house sell it for them could really use the money?
And if some of you feel that all money should be used to help the less fortunate, how do you justify having any luxuries? Perhaps sell your trains and other hobby items and give it away. And for all you know, the buyer maybe the most charitable of people.
I tire of those who feel they have a right to decide how others should spend their hard earned capital.
Happy railroading,
Don
