Lionel Accessories: POSTWAR or MODERN?

I've decided to go almost entirely with new stuff, with the exception of the 460 Piggyback Loader. I still have that one from when I was a kid, it's in excellent shape, and they never reproduced it as far as I know. For the rest, I'm buying repros. They look shiny new, many are available in much better looking colors than the original (i.e. the ice house), and while I know how to fix postwar equipment, I don't enjoy it. I can't say anything definitive on reliability since I'm just now installing the accessories on the layout (finished tracklaying a day or two ago). Some of the modern items use can motors and some of them run exactly the same way as the old ones. So far I have purchased the coal ramp, the diesel coal loader, the barrel loader, and the icing station. The icing station in particular is much better looking than the postwar original. 

 

One note of caution on the modern items, especially those made 10-15 years ago - check out a recent thread on the Train Orders Building from around 2004-2005. Lionel used a lubricant on the gear train on this item that hardened up and rendered the unit inoperable, requiring the owner to take it apart and clean off the old gunk. I just checked mine (still NIB, never operated) and it might work but it looks pretty ugly in there - I'm going to take it apart and clean it just as a precautionary measure before I try to run it. 

I have a mix of PW and modern accessories. I love the PW cranes with magnet, the water towers and such. Very noisy but total fun. 

 

The new accessories are awesome also. I would not want to have to make a choice between exclussively modern or PW. I take it on a per item basis depending on what place it will have on my layout. 

I have found that certain modern ones are much better than postwar. I particularly think the modern 264 fork lift platform, icing station, and the sawmill can't be beat. On the other hand I have found the postwar 397, 497, 364 and the 282 are as good or better than the new productions. Any of the postwar with the vibra motors tend to need attention more than the modern DC can motor ones but the new ones do use O rings and belts which need replacement.

I decided to use all modern versions on our layout as the action is much smoother and quieter. I've decided to showcase our postwar accessories on a static shelf display. 

The answer is unfortunately that it depends on a case by case basis.

 

Some of the new items you might not be able to get parts for if/when something does get broken.

 

However, some of the modern mechanisms are great improvements (especially in cases like the Icing Station mentioned above - no launching of ice cubes with the modern can versions).

 

It's interesting that you mention the culvert items.  While the old was the vibrotor and the new is can, it seems some folks do have problems with the modern ones a bit (in my case, one got temporarily "stuck" when the rollers didn't want to spin along the axis of the beam).  As much as I'm not a fan of vibrotors in general, a well "tuned" post war isuse for these might behave better than the new units (and I believe repro parts are generally available for these if needed).

 

The modern bascule bridge does not have a widespread history of mis-behaving that I am aware of (but there is probably at least one person out there with a story).

 

-Dave

 

I started with MPC, LTI and modern re-issues of accessories and have been replacing them one by one with post war originals as I find them in the really nice condition.

 

Many of the re-issues seem to use a very similar transmission between the can motor and the action mechanism - I have found it of the 282 Gantry Crane, the 352 Ice Station, the 497 Coal Loader, and the 415 Diesel Fueling Station re-issues.  In every one I had to replace the drive belt.  It is a small rubber belt that either dry rots or stretches and slips over time.  I replaced them with a common o-ring available from a local Ace Hardware. Even with new drive belts they can still slip with "fuller" loads on the 497 or 282.

 

I simply do not like the action or sound of the can motor; to me the thunk of a solenoid or the buzz of the vibrotor is more satisfying.  I also feel many of the originals are sturdier - more metal and less plastic.

 

I can not point to a specific reason that I prefer the originals - I did not grow up in the PW era so there is not a connection there from childhood.  I do enjoy cleaning up, tuning and bringing the pieces back to daily operation.  Just more satisfaction than opening a box and installing the accessory.  Not that there is anything wrong with that - to each his own.

 

I have also found that I have been able to get the PW accessories to all work smoothly.  At least as well as the re-issues and often better by either by cleaning, lubing, tuning, putting shims underneath a corner, etc.  I have also found that you have to run accessories - especially the vibrating type - on a variable voltage bus as they often need tweaking to work - one constant / single voltage does not fit.  This is true for the original or re-issues. With adjustable voltage I no longer launch milk cars or ice blocks at innocent Plasticville-ian bystanders.

 

I was using a ZW-C to power my PW accessories which I believe puts out a chopped AC wave form.  I recently switched to a PostWar RW and have noticed a huge difference in the original accessories - much smoother operation.

 

- Luther Stanton 

Excellent point made above about the use of variable voltage for your operating accessories (PW or modern). This is key and will vastly improve performance. 

 

I’m thinking, especially, of the Barrel Loader which as we all know can drive you crazy trying to set-up and operate correctly. You have to dial-in the voltage and get it exactly right.  Same for the milk cars to eliminate can launch.

I purchased a few of the American Flyer acessories built by MTH and Lionel and they did not operate as good as the originals.

I agree. I have all the postwar accessories but in a few cases the modern version is better. For example I use the modern 313 bascule bridge as it runs smoother and can accept higher trains. I use the modern 394 coal loader as it runs much quieter does seem to deliver more coal to the car.

A viable supplement to either PW or Modern Lionel operating accessories, are the American Flyer operating accessories made by A C Gilbert in the postwar years and the modern re-issues of A F accessories made by both Lionel and MTH.

 

A favorite of mine that runs very well is the A F Oil Drum loader which provides great action, usually reliable operation and is relatively quiet to boot. 

 

The only one NOT to get is the first version made by MPC. Unfortunately, the engineers used an 8 volt motor and planned to power it with variable track power. That is what happens when you have people who don't know toy trains engineering things. However, even this version works OK when separately powered with a small toy train transformer set at the its lowest voltage. Accidentally ran it at 14 volts once and the results were interesting to say the least But I digress, the Oil Drum Loader is a great accessory that deserves a place on your layout. 

 

Also deserving a look are the American Flyer log loader and the two coal loaders that were reproduced by both Lionel and America Flyer.

 

MTH also produced a series of very good operating accessories in the 1990s like the gas station, fire house, car wash and Mel's Diner.  The only thing that they suffer from is large footprints, which can chew up available layout space.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Ed Boyle

There was a point when I like the accessories better than the engines. That's changed. However, I did manage to collect a lot of them. For the most part the older and some newer Lionel Accessories are scaled on an "as needed" basis. That is to say 1/48 scale was not a consideration when it came to the figures that were part thereof.

Maybe the Lionel designers were thinking that if you are looking at an accessory you'll miss the badly scaled parts of it and just be amazed at what a rapidity magnetizable flipper can do.

Scott, welcome to the forum!

 

I also agree with most comments, It's a case by case basis!

 

Marty W. Rolla, MO.

Thanks everyone for the tips!  I think a safe answer is, it depends on what accessory.  One of the frustrating things I'm finding out today is, Lionel has discontinued many of the modern re-issues!  It looks to me as if they make a limited run of something, and then it disappears from the market..  Ugh!!

Unfortunately, that is correct.  This situation is a result of the pre-order mode of operation the hobby is in today.  An item gets cataloged, ordered very close to the order numbers from the manufacturer and there are not too many leftover.  (not that I am a fan of items in general sitting on a hobby store shelf for long periods of time, we know that hurts the store since the space costs money to keep the item there)

 

I know it's not going to happen, but certain classic basic pieces should be available a little more readily than they are.  I would think it would be reasonable to hope one could buy an operating water tower, gateman, or 445 switch tower (just 3 examples) relatively easily.  The last time Lionel made a regular (meaning not with the burning feature - though I do like those) switch tower was 1996 (6-12917).  Same for the water tower, if you want the one with a moving spout but without the operating water level I think(I think they have made 2, maybe 3 of the variant with the water) .

 

I'm a big fan of accessories as well, and I was a little luckier with my timing of entering the hobby.  I got in a few years before Lionel started to do a modern version of most classic PW accessories, so I was able to get most of the ones I was interested in.  If I tried to acquire all of them today, I think I'd be looking for quite a while.

 

Frank makes a valid point also, but there are exceptions and caveats to that as well. 

 

If I was to try to purchase certain rare PW accessories that were both complete and in excellent condition, I'd have to spend a heck of a lot more than I would on a modern re-issue.  The Heliport comes to mind, as very few helicopters survived being played with when originally purchased, so you'd at least most likely need to buy a repro helicopter (unless you paid very big $$ for a perfect original, but then you'd probably be afraid to ever launch it - I know I would!) I don't see the modern remakes in great quantities these days either, but when you do, even if they are priced higher than when offered, they are generally offered for much less than an excellent PW one would cost.

 

Some re-issues also incorporate actual improvements, such as the electronics and microphone in the Sound Dispatch station.  I believe the microphones can have issues due to age on a PW original.

 

While probably not applicable to many true re-issues, there are the occasional winners in new items that become sought after and don't take quite the hit Frank suggests if you did ever need to sell them, but that is not something any of us can predict with accuracy.  Examples could be the operating crane with the clam shell instead of magnet, or the rotary coal tipple (though that one will likely even out if/when Lionel actually makes the new run that was offered a few catalogs back).  This probably is a little off your original question though, as these are items with no post-war equivalent.

 

Good luck in your quest, whether you pursue modern, post-war, or a combination of both!

 

-Dave