Lionel Century Club Niagara, Love It-Or Lemon

I still love mine; always been a great runner. The only issue with a lot of these is small spots of paint peeling on the main drivers. I like running mine, so if they get too bad, I'll just touch up the paint or re-spray them.

This engine also has a horn feature like the new Milwaukee Road S-3s.

Larry D.

I prefer my Sunset/3rd Rail model first & foremost, close second is my MTH version.

I don't run often and my layout is flat but when it runs it appears fine. Did have an issue with the smoke unit not working and the local dealer was no help as they couldn't figure out the repair. Lionel wasn't any help as it was out of the guarantee timeframe. Had to send it to a large regional dealer who had a repairman that knew what to do. The loco had been sitting for a couple of years as there wasn't a layout. I agree with the paint coming off.

Yikes! Glad I asked!

I have had one for years. Over all it has been a troubled engine. The wheel rims to do fall off from time to time and I have glued them back on. The paint on the wheels is flawed and they become pitted. The most frustrating thing is the cherry switch for the chuff, I have had to have it replaced several times. This is a difficult engine to take apart and get to the switch. It is mostly a shelf queen, I just get tired of running it and getting disappointed. Do you want to buy mine.

Scott Smith

NOOOOO WAYYYYY! Thanks for all of the feedback on this loco! Things like the rims falling off and plastic gears make recent lionel QC issues seem trivial at the most,lemon it is.

On the bright side I have never had any gearing problem with this engine.

Scott Smith

Mine has been a lemon. A beautiful lemon. Stupendous sound; incredible presence. Gorgeous fit and finish. The Niagara is the only loco that I (sometimes) prefer to the

NYC J3a Hudson.   

Mother board replaced twice; driveshaft split (I fixed it with a brass sleeve); smoke unit running backwards; eccentric rod falling off. No driver tire (proper term; not "rim") problems yet.

After the second board (did both myself), I tested it on my test track and put it on the shelf, because I knew that if it died again that it would go through the wall.

I have a brass Samhongsa (Wms) Niagara in which I put ERR Cruise Commander and sound. That one is on the layout - all weathered and dirty, looking really tough. I run

it.

I may try to pick up a MTH Niagara at auction; saw one last month or two, but didn't go after it.

The only trouble I have had with mine is the universal coupling came off of the gearbox drive shaft (set screws worked loose).  Not the easiest locomotive to disassemble and work on but it looks and sounds fantastic. No problems with wheels/rims or paint.  

Obviously you have never heard a real 4-8-4 steam locomotive, NYC or otherwise. The Lionel model has ONLY 2-chuffs per revolution! Real two cylinder steam locomotives, including the MTH and Sunset/3rd Rail models, have 4-chuffs per revolution.

Duel horns? The NYC locomotives had only one horn.

I am surprised no one has commented about the Nathan air chime whistle. Its sounds pretty cool.

The engine is plagued with a host of quality issues even though it has some unique sounds and good looks.

I am looking at buying one... just looking for one at the right price.

My experience with the Lionel CC2 Niagara has been very favorable for the most part. The debits have been enumerated above. My sample has developed a few small pin holes in the black paint on one rear driver, which could be easily touched up. Early on, it required a change of its Chery switch, which was replaced under warantee by a my LHS (Brasseurs') and it has stayed fixed ever since. The engine is a bear to disassemble, however.

The positives are that it is a very handsome and very accurate model, and has what is (still) superior sound quality. The steam whistle and Nathan airchime sounds are definite plusses. Ajin did the development work with Lionel on the design and it stands as one of their better efforts of the period. Mine has always run well and pulls a long string of passenger cars with no difficulty. It smokes OK (w/JT Megasteam fluid), but it will not prompt one to dial the fire department.

For me, the glass is more than half full, but your mileage may vary.

Bob Bubeck

My Niagara has been running flawlessly for a number of years now. it is the " queen" of my New York Central fleet. It routinely pulls 20 + car trains without strain, or slippage, and looks great doing it. The is a drop down deck plate between the engine and tender, that broke once due to improper handling. That said, the locomotive has been trouble free. It is one of my favorites.

Referring to the famous James Bond quote, "You're joking!". If you think that nobody cares if it has 4-chuffs, then why did Lionel FINALLY stop issuing their scale size models with just 2-chuffs, some 3 or 4 years ago? Probably because many, if not ALL, modelers wanted their scale size, Legacy sound systems equipped steam locomotive models, to sound more like the real ones!

By the way, the NYC REMOVED the steam whistles on all the S class 4-8-4s, once they discovered how much steam was wasted blowing the whistles. Thus, after just the first few years in service, the Niagaras ONLY had air horns!

For what it's worth, I have something like 25 or 30 MTH locomotive models, and have had only two board "failures", and I run the he11 out of them. I only have 5 Lionel steam locomotive models; both of the SP articulateds (Cab Forward & AC-9), but had them up-graded to EOB with 4-chuffs by Train America Studios. Both of the Legacy models (UP FEF-3 #844 and Daylight GS-4) needed "attention" before they performed. The last model, an older NYC J3a, #5444 needed to be up-graded to 4-chuffs plus an MTH smoke unit, and it now runs very well also.

Great Engine. The first one had the drive wheel problem discussed above. Brought it to my dealer and he ordered one for himself. He replace my engine with his. Then he ordered the parts from Lionel and repaired his. He took the engine out of the sealed box and gave it to me. I was very happy with that.

Needless to say the replacement has had no issues at all since that day. I really like the sounds and the whislte and horn feature. I'm with Hot Water on this one, hate the two chuff's. Also can't stand the smoke unit. I've tried to take it apart to upgrade or rebuild the Smoke Unit. That is an immposible chore. I had 16 screws out of it and could only slightly move the frame from the shell. It's a real bear. So I live with the smoke unit.

Anyway you slice it it's a great engine, and I'm sure you can get it cheaper now then when I got it when it was new.

Mike R

I had one when they first came out. I might have replaced it but I dare not look under that part of the layout. My memories...

Great engine. Looks fabulous and sounds solid. The smoke is typical of Lionel at the time but was never a deal breaker for me. I had the wheel problem but that was an easy fix at the local store at the time.

For the price you can get one now I wouldn't hesitate to buy one. It's still one of the sharper engines from that period.

Best,

Jim

What are you guys running behind yours? I always wanted to build a nice mail/express for mine but gave up after pricing some of the PSC 60' baggage cars. I got a couple of Atlas express reefers to start with then I sort of spaced it out after that.

I'd like to run mine more. It was one of the last engines I upgraded with EOB and it's a real decent runner.

I have 2 of them and they really run great only had one of the rims come loose.  Simply fix with the super glue.

You guys ever notice the bell under the pilot? I think it should be a little dirtier don't you think??

Norm: The Niagara looks good with the NYC milk car(s) followed by the Pullman green 18" heavyweights from around 2000'ish.

Alternatively, also looks good with a string of scale PS-1 boxcars.

Mine pulling mth nyc cars        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...x=4&feature=plcp

One can take the route of assembling trains consistent with: (1) the time period of manufacture and the aesthetics of the trains as models by a particular manufacturer, and (2) a single road name (i.e., what I call the 'train collector's approach'). To wit:

1. The CC2 milk reefer set, which is the set primarily intended and catalogued by Lionel for this engine. There are additional reefers that were made for separate sale with the same appearence, which can be used to lengthen the train. A prototypical stretch to be sure, but they do look nice.

2. The full CC2 Empire State Express passenger car set, which makes a very handsome train with the Niagara (the combination of which is not a prototypical stretch).

3. As mentioned previously, some of the Lionel NYC milk reefers heading up Lionel NYC heavyweights made during the last decade. Cover up the 20-TH Century Limited drum head and this combination can be a thinking man's stand in for the likes of some lesser varnish.

Not the answers some of you were likely looking for, ...but what the hey?

Bob Bubeck

Thanks Bob, but I just noticed that GGD made some 80' coaches and 70' head end cars. I'll have to look at these a little closer...

I just bought one new in the box----runs great.  Just make sure it is well lubricated.  I also have a Sunset model in a display case--all brass models are fragile. The Lionel is much more durable unit.  Love the Lionel--very well detailed.

Why would you say THAT? Do you bash your models around? I have over 15 Sunset/3rd Rail brass steam locomotive models AND belong to the Independent Hi-Railers, Mid-West Division modular layout group. I carry each of my models in 20" or 26" plastic tool boxes, depending whether it is an "normal" model or an articulated model. Since I don't generally throw my models around, nor drop them on the floor, I have NOT experienced any problems with my brass steam locomotives.

hello guys and gals........

plastic gears in those heavy engines?  

the woman who loves toy trains

Tiffany

I have a Lionel Niagara and love it.  Run it frequently pulling a string of passenger cars and have never had a problem.  Great well built solid locomotive IMHO.  Bill B.

Mr. Hot Water. No, I do not bash my engines. You obviously have an ego that needs nurturing.

Update to my comments of Feb. 12.  While inspecting the driveshaft assembly prior to reinstallation, I noted one of the universals had split (on the intermediate shaft). This assembly is made up of a brass coupling, screwed (1.4x3 metric) to the flywheel then pinned to a delrin universal.  The other end of the assembly is a similar brass coupling screwed to the gearbox shaft and pinned to a second universal.  The 2 universals are then press fit onto an intermediate splined brass shaft about 7/16 in length thus completing the driveline. My fix was to replace the splined shaft with a piece of 3/32 dia. steel rod, replace the 2 universal halves with new universal halves which I then pinned to the rod with 1/16 roll pins. The rod came from Home Depot, the universal from Central Locomotive works, the roll pins from MSC Industrial Supply, and the metric screws from Northwest Short Line.

Well Mr. Dugan, you mistakenly posted that "brass engines are fragile".  All I did was state that THEY ARE NOT!

Rod diameter should be 3/16, not 3/32

Mr. Hot Water, I probably used the wrong terminology. I did not mean fragile in the sense of running them.  It is just that one does have to be careful about how they are handled.  I have run my 3rd Rail Sunset Niagara and it is a gem.  You just do not pick it up the same way you would a diecast model.  It is in a display case because it's beautiful.  When I received it, It had some flaws.  I had to return it three times.  Sunset was very good at fixing it(once for mechanical issues and twice for cosmetic flaws.  The tether between the engine and tender has a lot to be desired.  The tender axle with the sensor must be well lubed.  Brass isn't the same breed of cat as diecast.  I used to be an HO freak and had several brass steamers.  I had to be more cautious when handling them.  I think my initial text on this subject was not specific enough-- semantically vague. I apologize for my retort.  We are all in this game together.