Lionel Chief Plus no sound

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Probably time to buy a new PCB from Lionel.

I would if I could. The PCB is "Unavailable"...   

i searched the Lionel parts database on "lionChief PCB Hudson" and  a number of parts turned up. Since it

@ToledoEd posted:

i searched the Lionel parts database on "lionChief PCB Hudson" and  a number of parts turned up. Since it

Did you check to make sure you soldered the chip on correctly?  Is there sufficient solder on each pad with no "bridges from pin to pin"?   When I replaced mine at first it didn't work, but when I looked with my Optivisor I could see that two of the pads had insufficient solder.  I reheated each of the two pads with a dab more and it worked.  But you could just as easily have a "bridge" of solder between two pads.

Optivisor:   

John

@Craftech posted:

They said earlier that it is unavailable.

John

I know, use a similar engine board.

Craftech. I've never done this before.  Here's what it looks like. I used liquid flux. Watched a bunch of YT videos...it always looks so easy. I keep imagining someone else is doing the job...  It appears to me I have solder on all the leads and there doesn't appear to be any bridges to my eye.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

I know, use a similar engine board.

John, I found this part.  Do you think it's a good substitute for the PCB in Blue Comet? The overall description is "LionChief + Hudson. Although the Blue Comet is a Pacific, it seems to me in this case it's a distinction without a difference. Thanks.

Looks like a good idea.  Just match the picture against your board and make sure it has all the same connectors, it probably will, but might as well be sure.

@ToledoEd posted:

Craftech. I've never done this before.  Here's what it looks like. I used liquid flux. Watched a bunch of YT videos...it always looks so easy. I keep imagining someone else is doing the job...  It appears to me I have solder on all the leads and there doesn't appear to be any bridges to my eye.

Soldering looks OK to me.  I would not have used liquid flux on it first and it should be scrubbed with 91% isopropyl alcohol afterward.  But it looks OK.  The little hole on the end of the chip should match up with the notch on the white PCB outline underneath it.  Can you verify that?

John

Here is what I am talking about in terms of did you locate it correctly when you soldered it.

John

@Craftech posted:

Here is what I am talking about in terms of did you locate it correctly when you soldered it.

John

John, the dimple in the new chip is in the same position as the original chip.  I did attempt to clean up the flux... maybe not so good.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Looks like a good idea.  Just match the picture against your board and make sure it has all the same connectors, it probably will, but might as well be sure.

OK. Colors don't match the description but it is the same number of connectors as the current board. It's worth a try...I've blown $50 before.   Thanks. I'll order one now.

@Craftech posted:

If it has been back to Lionel twice during the warranty period did you tell them it still doesn't work?

John

I have not. I'll try, but since I pulled the original chip and replaced it, I suspect they may wash their hands of the problem.  I'll give it a try.

@ToledoEd posted:

John, the dimple in the new chip is in the same position as the original chip.  I did attempt to clean up the flux... maybe not so good.

OK. Colors don't match the description but it is the same number of connectors as the current board. It's worth a try...I've blown $50 before.   Thanks. I'll order one now.

Well, I don't count so good.  More connectors on the Blue Comet PCB than the Hudson PCB. I can mate a few of the connectors, but not all.  If anyone by chance has tried to use the LionChief+ Hudson PCB (See above pic) as replacement for the Pacific (Blue Comet) PCB I'd appreciate some help.

Otherwise, I have a fully functioning engine w/o sound.   thanks.

I had one more thought. Replace the sound amplifier chip, again. Maybe I toasted this one, or it's a 'bad' one???

How about a closeup of the two boards and an indication of which connectors you're confused about.

OK. I’m at the beach now. I’ll post next week. Thanks

Gunrunnerjohn, I hope this helps.  Thanks.

Here's the close up of the Blue Comet board

1 2

  3

Matches, matches but connectors do not match, and "I have no idea. From Blue Comet Board to Hudson Board

1.  Match;  connector is a different size

2 Match; connector is a different size

3. Match; connector is a different size (The Hudson lead uses a 3 pin connector but only 2 pins used)

4. Match; different size connector

5.  ?  Don't know match on Blue Comet board

6. ?   I'm lost

7. ? can trace the BK/GRY wires a 4 pin plug??

8. ?  No clue

9.  Match

Very complicated wiring system... Much Confusion .......... Ed,  Good Luck'...

@Quarter Gauger 48 posted:

Very complicated wiring system... Much Confusion .......... Ed,  Good Luck'...

Thanks. I’m hoping help will work!

Well, that's a bummer, do you have a similar closeup of the original BC board and which connectors are "extra"?

John, I misspoke, or mis counted.  There are 9 connectors from the BC and 9 connectors on the Hudson board. 

I'm not sure, or just don't know how to match connectors 5-8 on the Hudson board to the plugs from the BC board. 

You bought the wrong board. You bought the older RF only version, with different connectors, different sensor and then wonder why the connectors don't match.

This would have been a more correct board- proper Bluetooth version that would plug in.

https://www.lionelsupport.com/...ETOOTH-LC-HUDSON-NYC

I'm just going to say it again, you aren't going to easily adapt your existing wiring harness to the wrong board you bought.

Again, the motor tach sensor is different and incompatible- that's just one of the many major problems of trying to jam the wrong board in.

Easy mistake to make'.. These boards look very similar and difficult to find the nomenclature... !!!

@Vernon Barry posted:

You bought the wrong board. You bought the older RF only version, with different connectors, different sensor and then wonder why the connectors don't match.

This would have been a more correct board- proper Bluetooth version that would plug in.

https://www.lionelsupport.com/...ETOOTH-LC-HUDSON-NYC

I'm just going to say it again, you aren't going to easily adapt your existing wiring harness to the wrong board you bought.

Again, the motor tach sensor is different and incompatible- that's just one of the many major problems of trying to jam the wrong board in.

Vernon, thanks. I ordered this board.  I guess the original hand held for the Blue Comet will not work with this Board but I can use my Universal Remote to recognize this new board, is that correct???

@ToledoEd posted:

Vernon, thanks. I ordered this board.  I guess the original hand held for the Blue Comet will not work with this Board but I can use my Universal Remote to recognize this new board, is that correct???

Correct. Universal or app (it is Bluetooth) can operate this.

Thanks Vernon.  It belongs to my grandson and he has a universal remote...He'll be a happy camper for sure.

I return to the saga (6-84680, LionChief Blue Comet)  Well, around this time last year, I replaced the original board with the board suggested above and when I put power to it, BAM! a capacitor blew up...at that point I set it aside trying to decide what I should do next and packed it back up but not before connecting another board same as the one I blew up but at the time decided not to power it up.  I was at a loss of what to do next, so back into it's box it went.  Today, I pulled it out of the box but as soon as I put power to it a few sparks from what looked like the center of the engine bottom of the /PCB flashed. Nothing blew up this time.  First I thought it may have shorted out via the PCB as the brackets that hold it are also connected to ground and I did screw down  the PCB enough so I think a few pins on the bottom were touching. Of course I confirmed this after power up and the spark show. I then isolated the board (put electrical tape on the bracket  to keep it from touching the bottom of the PCB) and powered up ...again nothing. No lights came on, no sounds from the tender, nothing.  I then tested continuity. (bass-ackwards, I know) Positive from the pickups did not bleed over to any grounded parts of the engine.  The plug on the board that connects power and ground to the PCB likewise checked out. Positive did not show continuity with negative at that plug but did track power to the pickup and negative to the chasis. I'm at a loss. Not sure if I fried the PCB again and if I did, I can't figure out how... I suspect the sparks probably indicated the board got fried again...not sure how to confirm that.  This is a loco my grandson loves so I do want to get running again.  Any ideas welcome.  If you need pics I'll be glad to add them to this thread.  I checked Lionel parts and the same board is still available. Thanks.

FIXED, finally.  The board that caused the arcing and died is pictured below.

Not sure why this happened but I suspect it was what I described above.. The bottom of the PCB was touching the mounting brackets which were grounded.  (A previous PCB I installed blew up a capacitor! Scared the Beejeebus out of my grandson. )

I tried one last time with another board, but before I installed it I placed electrical tape on the mounting bracket to be sure the PCB did not ground out. It worked!  It runs fine and all functionality restored.  Thanks to Vernon Barry. He steered me in the right direction.