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Your help appreciated -- I want to get it right this time ...

After I bought this (used, via e-Bay) operating accessory and installed it on my home layout, the trouble started. With 14v fixed AC power from a MTH Z1000 (100 watts) transformer applied, its blinking lights atop the towers would flash, but the light in the house would not light up. Even with a gondola car in place and the sensor beam appropriately blocked, the traveling arm wouldn't move.

Later, I discovered a Lionel Correction Sheet that reported the two wires at the two terminal nuts to the transformer on its base were factory-wired backwards. My "educated guess" was the PCB inside the unit was fried because I initially wired it according to the (incorrect) Owner's Manual.

I ordered a replacement PCB from Lionel. When I removed the covering from the base for a look inside the unit, it was clear that the new "replacement" PCB was nothing like the original PCB - the wiring plugs of the accessory and the plug sockets on the replacement PCB wouldn't match up and the color coding of the SWITCH wires was different.

Then I found a broken connection of a purple wire. It's supposed to be connected to a short string of eight electronic pieces (resistors or diodes?). With alligator clips, I temporarily re-attached the purple wire ends to that short string, applied 14v AC from my test bench Lionel 1033 transformer to the terminal nuts marked as TRANSFORMER, and jumpered the SWITCH terminal nuts together (to simulate ON). But there was no result.

Perhaps this accessory has already gone to Lionel heaven and is way beyond resurrection/repair.  Pix of the unit taken yesterday on my test bench are attached.

I believe it would cost more to attempt to repair it at an authorized Lionel Service Center (along with two-way S&H costs) than it's worth, so I decided to buy a replacement unit. I found a like-new unit on e-Bay and bought it.  Its owner affirmed it works, but recommended avoiding a post-war transformer as its power source for an unexplained reason.  I intended to use a Lionel 1033 transformer for it (and its companion Culvert Loader, but now I'm uncertain.  Would a Lionel CW-80 transformer be better suited for this purpose?  It seems to me that electricity is electricity, but I recall OGR Forum notes about variations of the sine wave of different transformers. Does that apply in this case? Does it actually make a difference -- vintage Lionel transformer versus a contemporary unit? I intend to follow the directive on the Lionel Correction Sheet; i.e., since the accessory was factory-wired backwards, I'll hook-up the replacement accessory according to that revised info and diagram. 

As I understand it from a few Lionel Service Station guys, this accessory is often considered a "problem child."  Maybe the newest version of this nifty action accessory (with Command Control) has benefitted from a "fix" of the underlying problem.

With thanks in advance to anyone with special knowledge of the 6-12983.

Mike Mottler   (ritraingy)   LCCA 12394

 

 

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  • DSCN2380: Overview
  • DSCN2381: CU of the broken purple wire and "short string" of electronic parts
  • DSCN2382: Comparison of the "
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I think I can tell you why it's not working, it's missing the circuit board that plugs into the pins. That is what controls the reversing of the motor. it's called a 103E reversing unit and they are available.

As far as advise on not using postwar transformers, that's bunk. Postwar transformers are actually better as sine wave voltage produces as smoother flow and that's what those electronic boards like.

Last edited by Chuck Sartor
Chuck Sartor posted:

I think I can tell you why it's not working, it's missing the circuit board that plugs into the pins. That is what controls the reversing of the motor. it's called a 103E reversing unit and they are available.

As far as advise on not using postwar transformers, that's bunk. Postwar transformers are actually better as sine wave voltage produces as smoother flow and that's what those electronic boards like.

Chuck - I looked up his 6-12983 unloader on Lionel's page but saw only the motherboard (691PCB10AF MOTHERBOARD CULVERT UNLOADER - NOT AVAILABLE) in the parts list, no 103E reversing unit. Where would that be listed?

It appears that what they DID send, is this board 372131Dscn8777which goes in the 6-37952 unloader, a slightly older version I believe.

 

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  • 372131Dscn8777

Ok Mike, now I'm confused... Chuck Sartor offered to sell you the correct board for this loader in another post earlier this month. Said he had plenty in stock. So you order the board from Lionel instead and they send you the incorrect board for the 6-12983.

Why didn't you just get the correct board from Chuck, and it would have been fixed by now. I actually have this unit and the board recommended by Mr. Sartor is indeed the correct one.

Hope you get it fixed.

John

Bob my friend, stop for a second. The mini switches you refer to just close a circuit. The current reversing is controlled by the power supply / reverse board 103. The board is the same for both loader and unloader. The motherboard for each determine the sequence of actions. Rewiring the older unloader to fit the newer circuit board would be near impossible without wiring errors.

 If I was Mike, I would call Lionel and talk with one of the ladies there explaining the wrong board was sent and order the board with the number I provided. I believe the cost is the the same or near the same between the two. Get a RA to return the newer board in exchange for the 103 board. I think they will work with you on this. Then you will have a good spare unloader to sell or use.

UPDATE: THIS POST HAS INCORRECT INFORMATION.........IGNORE.

Last edited by Chuck Sartor

OK, perhaps the pins are for a radio board only, and the board is self contained for conventional operation only. IF that is the case, I have the mother boards. Maybe my information above is not correct.

UPDATE:  After some research, I am WRONG about the control board needing to be plugged into the motherboard on the unloader. That is only for the loader. Mr. Karas was correct. (he deleted his post) So ignore the information above from me.

So the unloader is not working, most likely the mother board is shot from the wrong terminals being used. I do have new replacements on hand.

Last edited by Chuck Sartor

Chuck Sartor
John Meyncke
Geopeg
Gunrunner John

Thanks to all for helpful responses. I took Chuck's advice and sent a description to Lionel (at their TALK TO US web page) about my misbehaving Culvert Unloader (6-12983). I asked for a RA to return for credit the incorrect PCB they recently sent to me, but I haven't heard back from them yet.  Thankfully, I received nearly immediate responses to my posting to members of this Forum.

Also, there's a broken purple wire in the circuitry. Without a drawing or schematic, I don't know where to reconnect it.  As per Gunrunner's advice, I'll add a fast-blow fuse in the 14v AC circuit from the 1033 to this accessory when it's time for a hook-up to power.

Chuck's offer to sell me the correct PCB for this action accessory is looking better every day. If/when a like new 6-12983 comes up on e-Bay, I may buy it and then repair my existing unit as a back-up. As I understand it, this accessory has earned a  reputation as a "problem child," so it may require two units in order to keep one up and running.  Got to keep the culverts flowing to gondolas on the railroad! 

Mike Mottler    (ritrainguy)   LCCA 12394

 

 

 

Mike H Mottler posted:

Also, there's a broken purple wire in the circuitry. Without a drawing or schematic, I don't know where to reconnect it.  As per Gunrunner's advice, I'll add a fast-blow fuse in the 14v AC circuit from the 1033 to this accessory when it's time for a hook-up to power.

Excellent advice from John, and I would certainly follow it. But be aware that action won't necessarily save you from destroying a board if you have hooked things up incorrectly. I don't believe Lionel goofed on the actual wiring of the unloader, but rather in their documentation. The owner's manual just shows a drawing of the corner of the platform with no identifying markings on the base for each pair of hookups. And what they tell you is wrong - it was corrected by the addendum they published, but I have no idea how Lionel insured that the addendum made it into the hands of eager new owners before they hooked things up!

IMG_0873

The manual (71-7952-250) that came with my 6-37952 unloader (also conventional, but a bit older than yours, I think) has the exact same error - if you follow the manual, you will blow up a board every time. If you simply look at the base plate, the markings for each hookup are there, and they are correct - at least on my unit, don't know about your model.

IMG_0875If you flip the unloader over

and examine the backside, you will see two pairs of wires going to the knurled nuts, red and black (transformer power) and blue and yellow (switch.) 

As I understand it, this accessory has earned a  reputation as a "problem child," so it may require two units in order to keep one up and running. 

I bought mine broken and have yet to see it run - it needs a new pcb just like the one Lionel sent you, actually I'm waiting for their November half price on parts sale. But from what I have read, you may have issues with the car detection sensor as well. Seems it gets tricked by ambient light. But let's not get the cart ahead of the horse - get your replacement board, and go from there.

Got to keep the culverts flowing to gondolas on the railroad! 

I have said that very same thing for years!!

 

 

 

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  • IMG_0873
  • IMG_0875

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