LIONEL D-27 DISAPPEARING TRAIN LAYOUT ???'S

This is one of the most interesting and fun layouts ever - just a superb trick.  I saw one sometime in the '60s, at a mall,  where the train was just long enough that briefly it was both still going in and coming out: this long train would enter the tunnel and not come out the other side of the tunnel for the longest time, then briefly it looked to be only about three feet long as it began exiting.  Fun!  I could not get enough.   Never thought about how you could make it an arcade type thing, but yeah, people would pay 5 cents to see that, for sure.

Wish I had thought to add a switchable element with this trick to my BEEPWorld loop on my layout when I first laid it out.  My grandkids would get a big kick out of a disappearing train.  But I'd have to tear up the heart of the layout now - too bad.  It is such a great idea.

Last year, following my retirement from State Farm Insurance, I was asked to take over the Cumberland County (NJ) 4-H Model Train Club. At the time, there were 8 boys in the club ranging in age from 8 to 13. None had ever worked with hand tools or power tools, and only one was into 0-gauge trains. As our project for the 2012 Cumberland County Fair, we built a disappearing layout. This was our very first effort as a club since we began in Nov. of 2011. We wanted several variations from Lionel’s original dealer layout, but keep the central idea. Because of the advancement in propulsion, track adhesion, sound and remote control, we wanted to take advantage of it all. We also wanted: 1) the engine and cars to be scale sized, as opposed to the original 027 size; 2) we wanted to run the train at slow speeds; 3) the track to be all MTH Real Trax; and, 4) the train to be long enough so that the caboose would be entering the tunnel while the engine was exiting the other side. We discovered that Real Trax could not be used inside “the box.” It was far too rigid both on the horizontal and vertical planes. We eventually realized that we would have to use Lionel O-gauge tubular track inside the box, using transition track to mate it to the Real Trax in the exposed areas. In hindsight, I believe we should have tried Gargraves flexible track, and may do so in the future.  It took a significant number of hours playing with differing track sizes, always having to be cognizant of the interior spatial limitations of “the box” and also the cutouts in the “lid.” The length of the train gave us fits also. We ended up using an MTH Premier 20-3174-1 PRSL 0-4-0 A-5 switcher as our engine, which from the engine’s front coupler to the tender’s rear coupler was 15” long. Our consist was made up of 13 Lionel 6-26457 Ore Cars, which were only 7” in length, and a Post War Lionel caboose. We had to remove the fake ore from the ore cars to lighten them enough so that the engine wouldn’t pull them off the track on the 031 curves. After finishing the layout, we almost didn’t get a chance to enter it at the Cumberland County Fair.

Two days before we were to set it up at the fairgrounds, a violent “super derecho” storm slammed  Cumberland and Atlantic Counties splitting tens of thousands of trees in half, knocking out power to over 2.6 million Garden State households, and blocking thousands of roads. The road to the building where our club meets was completely blocked by huge oaks. Fortunately, it was cleared by the first day of the fair and we were able to move all of our stuff to the fairgrounds.

 Because we were participating in MTH’s See It, Hold It, Run It Program simultaneous to displaying the disappearing layout, Barry Lewis, from MTH, asked for photos of some of the club members with the SHR display and a short video of the disappearing layout. We were pleasantly surprised that one of the photos made it into the 2013 Volume 1, page 3, along with a short description. I had to load the video onto YouTube due to size limitations of g-mail. You view the video by clicking on the following link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ah3HDfQekd8 or searching YouTube for – Cumberland County 4-H Model Train Club Disappearing Layout. Unfortunately, someone from another 4-H club vandalized the layout. We decided to strip everything off the layout and store the buildings and track in a secure part of the building that we share with several other clubs. So, the video above is the only one taken of the layout.

Doug, noticed this was built using Fastrack. Would it be possible for you to post yhe track diagram used for this layout showing both the location of and listing all the Fastrack pieces? That way, for those of us without track planning software, we could buy the exact Fastrack pieces needed to duplicate this plan that really works and looks great.

O-gauge guy The 4 H layout done by the Cumberland County 4H Used MTH Real Trax Not Lionel Fast Track. He also states that they could not Use the Real Trax inside the Tunnel the answer to that was using Lionel Tubular Track inside the Tunnel and adapter tracks to mate the Lionel Tubular to the MTH Real Trax. 

Hi ogaugeguy:

As most will tell you, the original drawings that Lionel used in making the No. D-27 dealer display layout, nicknamed the Disappearing Layout, have been lost to the ages. In the November 2001 issue of CTT, Roger Carp provided diagrams which were helpful. However, they lacked enough specificity to guide us along without significant difficulty. I can’t provide a list of track inside the mountain until later sometime next week after we have our club meeting.

When we built our version, we had altered the location of the “box” in order to allow us room to make a tiny city scene. We moved the “box” almost 2’ to the right. In hindsight, we should have left the box in the center of the 4’x8’ board, as Lionel designers had built the original. We also added 8” to the width of the board to accommodate a 2^nd oval, which transversed the entire perimeter. Once we discovered the problems with using MTH RealTrax inside the box, it was completely trial-by-error to come up with a working track plan using Lionel tubular track. We went through dozens of custom cut risers, even super-elevating some with shims. Super-elevating kept the train from derailing within the box. The exit at the left side of the mountain had to be lowered to decrease the intense grade and to prevent wheel-slip, which was a major issue with. We even scored the track along the exit ramp to create greater wheel adhesion. We went through a number of engines until we ended up settling on the 0-4-0. We also tried using the gondolas that Lionel utilized with the D-27, but found then to be too long, which is why we ended up the Lionel ore cars. The engine behaved better entering from the left and diving down the steep grade of the ramp and then having an easier grade to climb within the box before exiting on the right. We found that the train didn’t have a long enough straight-away after exiting on the right and the engine would pull the cars off the track as the engine entered the curve behind the mountain. Due to space limitation at the fair for our group’s display, we were not able to build an extension to correct the problem.

For anyone undertaking building this layout, they’re in for a lot of work, much of it frustrating. It will cultivate patience, although along the way many words which shouldn’t be uttered in polite company will suddenly flow; just make sure to cover the kids’ ears – i-pads cranked up work. When it’s working, there is nothing like seeing the expression on kids’ faces when the engine doesn’t come straight out of the mountain and the mountain keeps on swallowing the entire train. I do believe that the use of Gargraves flex track is the way to go when building this layout.

I am attempting to (sort of) incorporate this illusion into my layout. I'm doing a hidden helix inside of a mountain, though it's a larger mountain that the one I'm seeing in member stur-it's layout earlier in this thread, and mine will not have the front of the train exiting before the rear of the line has entered.

My problem is this: stur-it's hidden helix appears to gain what must be nearly 5" in height over a span of 7 or 8 Lionel tubular track sections, but I find no mention in the thread about problematic grade issues. Looking elsewhere on the ogrforum site, I find posters claiming that their locomotives have trouble with anything steeper than a 3% grade. Even the Lionel 110 trestle set has instructions with a suggested layout resulting in a 5% grade for my Super O track.

I have the entire helix section in place with nothing securing the bents to the plywood, and I have not hooked up a transformer to try it out yet. The steepest part of my incline is a gain of nearly 4.5" over the course of seven Super-O tracks, which figures to be just under a 7% grade.

For those of you with experience in this area, is this do-able for my 681 locomotive?

Thanks!

The "disappearing train" layout does use an unusually steep short grade, but because it is preceeded by a downgrade, a longer train will help push itself through the upgrade. So a good Magne-traction loco shouldn't have too much trouble as far as pulling capacity. I think the real trick will be in getting reliable train performance through the full circle of track with some distinct vertical curves. The cars should all be evenly weighted and wheels in proper gauge, etc.

 Here it is

I was asked about my layout I buits. There are pictures here my name at that time was stur-it.

Doc,

How did you make the painted "roadbed" on your display layout?  Is it just masking tape and brush painting to separate the grass from the roadbed?  Thanks.

Ted

I had the paint mixed to look like what Lionel used Painted the board the cream color

Taped it off and used the green and while the paint was wet I sprinkled Original Lionel grass on it. I wanted to try and make it look as original as I could. I think it turned out not to bad.