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Hey Folks,

I took the plunge and sprung for one of Lionel's ESE Hudsons w/PT Tender to pull the 8-car set of GGD passenger cars I purchased at York last year.  I opted for #5426 with all silver drivers.  The other option w/PT Tender would have been locomotive #5429 with 2 pair of silver scullin drivers (first/last) and one pair of black boxpok drivers (middle).  I thought about that for a second, then opted for the all-silver-driver look.  Here are a few quick iPhone pics...

Lionel_ESE5426PT1

Lionel_ESE5426PT2

Lionel_ESE5426PT10

I haven't tested the loco operationally yet.  But from an appearance standpoint, I'm pleased with Lionel's efforts on this model -- at least for a streamlined steam locomotive.  I tend to prefer my O-Gauge steamers with LOTS of detail, so this isn't my absolute favorite loco for that reason.  But it's a very sharp-looking locomotive nonetheless with its unique silver/black paint scheme.  My choice in purchasing one of the ESE locomotive offerings w/PT Tender was two-fold:

  • One... I simply like the look and detail-level of an all-black tender w/coal load.  And the PT Tender is a huge tender that's tough to beat.
  • Two... I knew there would be some color mismatch between Lionel's ESE paint-scheme and that of GGD.  So I was hoping the all-black tender would buffer that mismatch somewhat.

 

Here are a couple of photos of the PT Tender that highlight a very nice level of detail we've come to expect with Lionel's high-end locomotives.  And also note that the PT Tender comes with a fully stocked scale coal load in full view vs. the streamlined tender's narrow strip of coal.  I was disappointed when Lionel chose to produce the Pennsy scale Turbine locomotive with a molded coal load in the tender, so it's good to see Lionel revert back to providing "real" scale coal in the tender for their high-end locomotives.  Overall, mission accomplished regarding the tender.

Lionel_ESE5426PT11

Lionel_ESE5426PT12

BTW, one important note worth mentioning about the PT Tender wheelset.  I had never purchased a locomotive with PT tender before.  So when I was unpacking the tender, I was looking for TWO pair of foam protector sheets between the tender body and front/rear wheelsets.  Well, the PT Tender only comes with ONE foam protector sheet for the front wheelset.  The rear wheelset (containing FIVE pair of wheels) is integrated directly into the tender body.  Only the tender's front wheelset moves as the locomotive tracks through curves.  So when the Lionel specs indicate O-72 for this puppy, I wouldn't try operating this loco on anything less than that.  And I might even go up a notch or two in the minimum radius department.  

 

Now, getting back to the Lionel/GGD color mismatch... I knew there would be a color difference between Lionel's locomotive and the GGD passenger cars.  So I was hoping the completely black PT Tender would act as a "buffer" of sorts between the two different hues of aluminum coloring.  In reality, the color difference is much more apparent than I thought , but certainly not a deal-breaker in my eyes.  (These are, afterall, just toys -- albeit expensive ones!)  Of course, this is strictly a judgement call... and I know there will be folks out there who can't handle the difference.  So be it.  They probably won't go down this road then.

In any event, here's how things stack up with a GGD ESE parlor car.

Lionel_ESE5426PT4

 

Lionel_ESE5426PT3

Now, if you look closely at the right-hand side of the top photo, you can see three passenger cars in the photo:  top is an Atlas-O Amtrak Zephyr car, the middle car is the GGD ESE car, and the bottom car is a GGD Santa Fe El-Capitan High-Level car.  As luck would have it, the GGD ESE car has the MOST NOTICEABLE color difference with Lionel's ESE locomotive , whereas the Atlas-O Zephyr cars and GGD El Capitans blend in much closer to the silver color of the ESE steamer.  The GGD ESE cars are noticeably BRONZE compared to the steamer's SILVER.  Oh well... them's the breaks.   Had I purchased one of the locomotives with the streamlined tender, THAT would have likely been a deal-breaker, since the silver/bronze color difference would be too dramatic between the tender and first adjacent passenger car.  But the all-black PT Tender does buffer the difference somewhat as I had hoped it would... although I'll admit the color difference is still noticeable.  Maybe an "express-service box car" (or two) might also help in this department!  

One other note about these locomotives... Lionel does NOT provide a dummy coupler for double-heading.  So if anybody is contemplating the purchase of #5426 AND #5429 for double-heading, you'll definitely need to get creative.  Not sure why Lionel omitted this, because they provided the dummy coupler with the N&W "J" locomotives, which have a very similar front pilot appearance.   But then the "J" didn't have whistle-steam, and I'd much rather have a locomotive with whistle-steam and no front coupler than vice-versa! 

Unless I run into any operational issues, this locomotive will very likely be a keeper for me -- even with the GGD color mismatch.  If a visitor asks about it, I'll just tell 'em the locomotive came fresh out of the shop with a brand new make-over!!!  

But all kidding aside...  I would caution folks to think carefully before making a Lionel ESE purchase selection.  It's nice that Lionel provided some purchasing options.  HOWEVER, if you purchase one of the separate-sale J3a Hudsons, you can't purchase the 4-car passenger set separately at a later date -- unless, of course, a dealer (or other seller) breaks up the 6-82528 ESE Passenger Set containing the 4 cars for you.  Nor can the separately-available ESE Hudsons be double-headed readily with the locomotive that comes with the ESE Passenger Set.    Lionel could have provided ESE enthusiasts with ultimate purchase flexibility, if they would have offered both the PT Tender and the basic 4-car passenger set as separately available offerings... just as they did with the 2-pack add-on and StationSounds diner.   

David 

 

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Last edited by Rocky Mountaineer
Original Post

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Kinda interesting that Lionel put a silver boxpok pair at the front for the 5426. Not what I expected, but still looks cool.

And I agree, Dave. In my original posts when this product was announced, I thought it would've been a better idea to offer the PT tender and 4 cars for separate sale for flexibility. I opted for the set, but hopefully someone will want to exchange a PT version like this one.

Oh yeah, the non streamlined version actually needs O-72, too, due to the scale pilot truck.

Mikado 4501 posted:

Kinda interesting that Lionel put a silver boxpok pair at the front for the 5426. Not what I expected, but still looks cool.

...

From what I can see in the catalog, it appears the final product is different than what is catalog'd.  The catalog image for 6-82535 (the locomotive I purchased) shows all silver scullin drivers.  As delivered, the front pair of drivers are actually boxpok... but at least Lionel made them silver to keep the "all silver driver" appearance.

The other ESE locomotive w/PT Tender is 6-82536 (i.e., roadnumber 5429) and was catalog'd with silver front/rear Scullin drivers and black middle Boxpok drivers.  Should be interesting to see if that's the way Lionel delivered #5429 w/PT Tender.  Can anyone confirm the "as built" driver configuration (i.e., driver style and color) for 6-82536?  Please let us know, if you purchased one.

Don't get me wrong.  I'm pleased with the appearance of my locomotive.  But, of course, this minor variation does beg the whole issue of BTO products being built differently -- albeit ever so slightly -- than what is pictured in the catalog.  For some folks, these kinds of variations could be deal-breakers.

David

Last edited by Rocky Mountaineer

David, seems like Lionel did some damage to the Rocky Mountaineer Estate these last few weeks .  Between this and your new ES44's.....tough on the old wallet!!! HAHAHA

Looks absolutely amazing and congrats on the ESE.  I hope you enjoy it!  Lionel is really firing on all cylinders right now, it's an exciting time for the hobby! 

Best Always,

Michael

Gerry Burns posted:

Does the tender have 2 oval speakers,  like the PT tender that came with the Niagara or does it have the four mini-fatboy speakers, that were on the optional PT tender for the CC2 Empire State Express?  ...

This model of the PT tender appears to have 2 circular speakers.  The speaker holes run beneath 3 of the 5 pair of wheels that make up the tender's rear integrated wheelset.

David 

Mikado 4501 posted:

Oh, by the way, David, my engine DID come with a front coupler. I guess Lionel thought to put that it in some, but not all, which...makes no sense.

Hhmmm... interesting...   I'll wait to see when Lionel posts the exploded-parts diagrams for these locomotives to see if a dummy front coupler should have been provided.

The other little nuance I noticed regarding the drivers... Over in Alex M's thread featuring the loco and passenger cars from the complete set, that locomotive appears to have ALL scullin drivers (silver), whereas my locomotive has the one pair of silver boxpok drivers along with two pair of silver scullin drivers.

David

The mixture(or not) of different wheel types is probably asking alot from overseas manufacturing. I guess it depends on whether or not someone who ordered one that was supposed to have mixed wheel types has the boxpok's in black matching the photo.

If this is the case maybe they painted yours silver to help hide the error.

Additionally none of the photos locos with mixed driver types shows boxpoks on the front set.

 If only Lionel could stop the whole Forrest Gump "Ya never really know what your gonna get" approach to train manufacturing. 

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Last edited by RickO
RickO posted:

The mixture(or not) of different wheel types is probably asking alot from overseas manufacturing. I guess it depends on whether or not someone who ordered one that was supposed to have mixed wheel types has the boxpok's in black matching the photo.

If this is the case maybe they painted yours silver to help hide the error.

Additionally none of the photos locos with mixed driver types shows boxpoks on the front set.

 If only Lionel could stop the whole Forrest Gump "Ya never really know what your gonna get" approach to train manufacturing. 

Yea that's why I don't pre order! But truthfully I really wanted to buy the set .. But I spent to much on es44s! 

Last edited by jojofry

Love the mixed drivers; so "in service" looking.

"Sadly, it seems that the new Legacy Hudsons have their drive wheels pressed on, so us nitpickers can't change them out if we want to, at least easily."

Actually, the "old" ESE J3a pre-Legacy TMCC version had press-fit drivers, too. The Lionel J3a Century Hudson has screw-mount drivers, as does the Lionel non-streamlined J3a. I have bought and swapped some drivers on one of my "plain" J3a's. Nice to be able to do it - I left the Scullins on the main drivers and put Boxpoks on axles 1 and 3. Must take photos...

There are surprising "underside" tooling differences among these 3 versions of what one would think was the same loco with different loco and tender body shells. Apparently, such is not the case, especially pertaining to the ESE version vs. the other two. I forget the particulars.

I own the TMCC ESE, Century and plain Lionel J3a's, and am pretty familiar with them. Nice work, all 3. 

 

Not a big fan of the ESE Hudson, but maybe this will help:

the cars appear to be Budd, hence bare stainless.  The locomotive may have had some bare stainless, but for the most part was painted.  No way silver paint ever came close to matching bare stainless.  Therefore, you have the perfect setup.

And even better, if you decide to weather, that silver paint would wind up almost black after 50 miles on the road.

Rocky Mountaineer posted:

In reality, the color difference is much more apparent than I thought , but certainly not a deal-breaker in my eyes.  (These are, afterall, just toys -- albeit expensive ones!)  Of course, this is strictly a judgement call... and I know there will be folks out there who can't handle the difference.  So be it.  They probably won't go down this road then.

 

This is usually a problem with mixing passenger cars and engines from different manufacturers. There's another thread currently about the upcoming Powhattan Arrow cars from GGD. There may very well also be a problem with matching those to a MTH or Lionel J (I know from experience that the maroon on the Lionel scale J does not match that of MTH N&W cars). It's tradeoff - highly detailed cars vs. mismatched paint. Just up to the individual what they value most.

Personally, I chose not to "go down that road." They may be toys, but when you're paying these kind of prices (sometimes thousands of $), having an engine with passenger cars with mismatched colors that conflict doesn't hack it. It just stands out in an unattractive way, at least for me. Just my view, of course. Others don't mind so much. 

Here's the real deal - very nice match between the engine and the cars (as you'd expect on a crack named passenger train).

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Last edited by breezinup

Benny, thanks for sharing photos of the different ESE locos from the most recent Lionel production runs.

Interesting that none of the "as built" models has a mix of driver colors as depicted in a couple of the catalog photos, namely the images for 6-82536 and 6-82537.  Wonder why the discrepancy.    Not sure how I'd feel if I had pre-ordered either of those EXPECTING the different color drivers!     But the spoked drivers are a nice touch.

Can't recall when Lionel has ever offered this many "variations" of essentially the same locomotive in a given catalog.  Were we still living in a collectors-era, this would be cause for an entire chapter on a book about product variations.    In an operators-era that we find ourselves in nowadays, I doubt most folks would care one way or another.  But at a minimum it's one for Lionel trivia buffs.

David

Last edited by Rocky Mountaineer

Wow!

Definitely a few surprises in all of these engines.

It looks like the Mercury version got almost the exact same tender as the Vision 700E after all! Definitely didn't expect the spoked drivers on the rear either!

I might've preferred the spoke/boxpoks to be black as pictured, but these engines still look cool and unique in their own ways.

I just took delivery of the ESE with the standard J3 tender, very pleased to say the least.

A few things:

                 1.  It runs just fine on o-60 fastrack, I may try it on my o48 loop  just to see

                 2. It has the ashplan glow, I was concered that since the "full streamlined " model hides the ashpan that it                              may not have it.

                 3. It has seperate on/off switches for main and whistle smoke, lionel dropped this on the heavy mikes

I may post a video in a few days confirming breezinups claim that I'm " black and white" blind. I will also probably outrage most NYC /Hudson/ passenger experts in the process

At any rate this loco is a big 

Well I've got mine today.  Detail for diecast anyway is top notch.  Railsounds are awesome, hear different sounds I didn't know were there every time I run her.  Smoke output is great, glad you can change the intensity from Low, medium, or high; nice Legacy feature.  Whistle steam, I can take it or leave it. If it didn't have it, it wouldn't bother me a bit, a feature which for me anyway is not a deal maker or breaker. 

So Lionel scores a 8 out of 10 on this model.  But, like anything else there's always room for improvement.  Things I would like to see added to Lionel steam engines.

1. skid plate between engine and tender

2. All weather cabs

3. Chains for the tender trucks.

4. Running gear/side rods.  Never like the finish, time to darken them up, maybe a little gloss to boot.

 

A quick video I shot with the GoPro

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ukj07CPgYYk

Last edited by superwarp1
superwarp1 posted:

Well I've got mine today.  Detail for diecast anyway is top notch.  Railsounds are awesome, hear different sounds I didn't know were there every time I run her.  Smoke output is great, glad you can change the intensity from Low, medium, or high; nice Legacy feature.  Whistle steam, I can take it or leave it. If it didn't have it, it wouldn't bother me a bit, a feature which for me anyway is not a deal maker or breaker. 

So Lionel scores a 8 out of 10 on this model.  But, like anything else there's always room for improvement.  Things I would like to see added to Lionel steam engines.

1. skid plate between engine and tender

That would be the "deck plate" between the engine cab and the tender. Too bad Lionel doesn't add those.

2. All weather cabs

The NYC didn't have "all weather cabs", just the standard cab curtains for bad weather or winter operations.

3. Chains for the tender trucks.

Agreed. Those are always a very nice added prototypical touch.

4. Running gear/side rods.  Never like the finish, time to darken them up, maybe a little gloss to boot.

Remember that those are light weight roller bearing rods, and SHOULD look like that.

 

 

superwarp1 posted:

I was trying to remember the term Deck Plate and the curtains would ad a nice touch to the engine. Shouldn't the guide where the connecting rod and the piston rod/cross head be black?

Since your video did have any views of the locomotive running gear, I couldn't see the area you are asking about. Please post a side view of the running gear so that we all can see what you are describing. Since the crosshead does move back and forth on the crosshead guides, then the guide should also be shiny. 

superwarp1 posted:

I was trying to remember the term Deck Plate and the curtains would ad a nice touch to the engine. Shouldn't the guide where the connecting rod and the piston rod/cross head be black?

Gary, its not hard to add a deck plate. I do it to all my upgrades. Precision Scale has the diamond plate and hinges or make your own hinges. I used door hinges on some because thats how some of PRR engines were made.

As for valve gear, this is what the J3s had as correctly modeled by 3rd Rail.

J3_Valve_Left_A

J3_Valve_Right

Pete

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Last edited by Norton

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