Hello, I've been thinking about my next purchase. I'd like another electric locomotive. The MPC PRR GG1 is my first choice. Does anyone have any thoughts?
Best
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If my memory is correct, the early MPC re-issue GG-1s were made with nylon/engineering plastic gears on the drive axles. They will likely be ready to split in-two or may have already been replaced for that issue. I believe the first re-issue also had a hole in the bottom of the drive truck that tended to leak lube on to the rails.
I do not know if the LTI re-issues were made with metal gears or not, but something to be aware of.
I believe metal gears are available to replace the nylon gears if needed. Chuck Sartor may chime in here and add more info as he does these repairs.
I would purchase an original postwar Lionel GG1 if you can. I have a 1947 single motor one and it still runs great. If you want a more modern version that is simple,reliable and looks like the Lionel, go with a williams version.
David 66,
I own 5 different GG1's, 2 of which are DCS, 2 original Conventionals, & 1 Scale TMCC/Legacy, and if I had none and was purchasing my 1st. I would skip the older Conventional models and purchase the Brunswick Green JLC Scale TMCC GG1, that you can run in either Conventional & Legacy/TMCC. The one draw back is that the scale GG1 runs on 072 curves and larger. 2nd I would purchase a DCS GG1 of your individual liking, that can be run in Conventional or DCS. If you happen to be looking for just a Conventional GG1, I highly recommend the original Williams GG1, one of the finest Stump Pullers ever made.
PCRR/Dave
Here's the be-all and end-all of Lionel postwar GG1s, including exactly which models had plastic gears.
http://www.trainz.com/t-gg-1.aspx
Pine Creek Railroad posted:David 66,
I own 5 different GG1's, 2 of which are DCS, 2 original Conventionals, & 1 Scale TMCC/Legacy, and if I had none and was purchasing my 1st. I would skip the older Conventional models and purchase the Brunswick Green JLC Scale TMCC GG1, that you can run in either Conventional & Legacy/TMCC. The one draw back is that the scale GG1 runs on 072 curves and larger.
I also own 5 scale GG1s. Four are MTH Proto 2 and one is a Williams before Bachman. All 5 are great runners and pullers. The 4 MTH do require 072 turns and may or may not fit your situation. The Williams is a good alternative to the MTH or Lionel scale GG1s. It's a great runner, looks fantastic and will run on O-42 curves.
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Thank you all, I have a long but narrow layout, so the 027 curves are all that's on offer. I'm going to go for s green MPC one.
As far as I am aware, only the first MPC re-issue the brownish 8753 from 1977 is the only GG-1 that had plastic gears. Lionel quickly learned their mistake on this engine. Another mistake was the armature shafts were made too long and bottomed out on the truck casting. Instead of making another whole production run of costly motor armatures, it was less expensive to drill holes through the truck casting during production. This is the hole that D&H65 speaks of. A armature from a 8753 will not fit any other GG-1. Unfortunately, the poor 8753 with the dead flat brownish red paint ( the paint was the wrong mixture, it has too much red and looks maroon instead of PRR Tuscan Red) and bad mechanics is the worst GG-1 Lionel has made. They corrected the problems with the 8850 Penn Central GG-1.
Here's the be-all and end-all of Lionel postwar GG1s, including exactly which models had plastic gears.
Thanks for the link. Trainz has some good articles, but I often have trouble finding them.
Does anybody know whether the 18308 (1992) Silver Pennsylvania GG-1 has an electromechanical E-unit?
I thought it had an electronic one, but I just looked at the catalog illustration, and it appears to have an e-unit lever sticking out of the top.
And what of actual operating catenary? I wasn't able to get one off SteelToys; I know MTH does some. Any thoughts?
Id like the look and the blue spark for realism.
If your layout is all accessable, you can do what I did and make your own. Photos to follow:
I made the poles out of dowels, the green insulators I got from JoAnns, just Google Marklin Catenary and there is a ton on ebay.
Marty
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C W Burfle posted:Here's the be-all and end-all of Lionel postwar GG1s, including exactly which models had plastic gears.
Thanks for the link. Trainz has some good articles, but I often have trouble finding them.
Does anybody know whether the 18308 (1992) Silver Pennsylvania GG-1 has an electromechanical E-unit?
I thought it had an electronic one, but I just looked at the catalog illustration, and it appears to have an e-unit lever sticking out of the top.
Yes, it does have the postwar style e-unit - have owned a few of these. Note that though this looks the same as a postwar GG1 it is a different shell casting, frame and trucks (the interface to the Pullmor motors is raised) so none of the parts will not interchange with MPC/postwar GG1s (not sure if that's important but though I'd throw it out there).
Yes, it does have the postwar style e-unit - have owned a few of these. Note that though this looks the same as a postwar GG1 it is a different shell casting, frame and trucks (the interface to the Pullmor motors is raised) so none of the parts will not interchange with MPC/postwar GG1s (not sure if that's important but though I'd throw it out there).
Thanks! The information about the construction is important to me.
Nice job, Marty. Is that the Marklin HO wire?
Yes, just Google the wire on Ebay, there is a ton of it out there...
Marty
C W Burfle posted:Yes, it does have the postwar style e-unit - have owned a few of these. Note that though this looks the same as a postwar GG1 it is a different shell casting, frame and trucks (the interface to the Pullmor motors is raised) so none of the parts will not interchange with MPC/postwar GG1s (not sure if that's important but though I'd throw it out there).
Thanks! The information about the construction is important to me.
I can attest to the differences in the 18308, something I noticed shortly after purchasing mine. It appears a rejuvenation program was happening at LTI, an effort to machine new molds of their PW classics. The crisp, new casting on the 18308 is a real improvement over the previous MPC example (18303 from 1989). The 18308 has a wider body along with other minute detail differences. Rumor has it the 18308 was an MTH creation for Lionel. In fact, the RailKing GG1 body mirrors the 18308 exactly.
The next GG1 by Lionel was 18313 in 1996...the first GG1 with TMCC, albeit totally silent. This one saw a return to original PW body dimensions from, apparently, another fresh set of molds. Here's the 18308 and 18313 together. Hopefully it illustrates the wider cross section of the 18308.
Bruce
I would go for the 18313. It has staked magnets and they occasionally slide out against the drive wheels. A little super glue can fix the magnets.
Another good one would be the Century Club GG1. It can be had pretty inexpensively right now - including sound.
Just as an FYI with both of these - the pantographs are the TMCC antennas, so they need to be installed if you're running command.
Fred
To All: Just a reminder for those who have forgotten. The Century Club G G I was shipped, when built, with a 9 volt DC battery installed in the unit due to the very congested space inside.
Now, after all these years of the battery inside, some of them (batteries) have been observed to be swelling, a condition prior to leaking.
If you are planning to buy one of these Century Club GGI's , be sure that you have re-dress should you discover that the battery has leaked internally. Dennis M.
If you want to run a GG-1, you are better off to buy a can motored engine. D&H is correct about the MPC G. I run 16 MTH G motors and several scale Williams from live catenary. Can motors all the way.
Dennis M posted:To All: Just a reminder for those who have forgotten. The Century Club G G I was shipped, when built, with a 9 volt DC battery installed in the unit due to the very congested space inside.
Now, after all these years of the battery inside, some of them (batteries) have been observed to be swelling, a condition prior to leaking.
If you are planning to buy one of these Century Club GGI's , be sure that you have re-dress should you discover that the battery has leaked internally. Dennis M.
Yeah, forgot to mention that. I pulled all of my batteries out as soon as I got them. Never understood why you ever needed one if running TMCC, only if you were running conventional.
Hadn't considered what Marty suggested about can motors. That's also a viable option. Some brand new Williams are still at dealers for $99 to $149. Just do some searches on OGR's sponsors.
Fred
The Williams G runs as good as any other.
PCRR/Dave mentioned the early Williams " stump puller ". Here's mine undergoing an ERR upgrade. Those Pittman motors were originally developed as automotive starters. 
Although hefty, the overbuilt running gear produces a noticeably quiet runner, with the ability to literally climb out of the grave if asked. It had better be muscular if you plan to haul it's set of 4 William's bakelite Madison's. Needle bearings and fast angle wheels were still years away back in 1978. This former TCA anniversary set received a more deserving paint job.
Bruce
For what it's worth, there's a who,e collection of 3rd rail GG-1s on dash
Anyone have any comments or observations on the O-Line GG1 - good or bad?
There should be some K-Line GG-1s around also. They are traditional size and have two can motors.
MTH also made GG-1's. I have an older Railking model. I think it runs well.
The only poor running Lionel GG1 that I know of came in the remake set w/Madison cars. Had I known they were going to issue the same cars later with a steam loco I would have waited for it. The K-line and Williams GG1s are good runners as well, also quieter.
brwebster posted:PCRR/Dave mentioned the early Williams " stump puller ". Here's mine undergoing an ERR upgrade. Those Pittman motors were originally developed as automotive starters.
Although hefty, the overbuilt running gear produces a noticeably quiet runner, with the ability to literally climb out of the grave if asked. It had better be muscular if you plan to haul it's set of 4 William's bakelite Madison's. Needle bearings and fast angle wheels were still years away back in 1978. This former TCA anniversary set received a more deserving paint job.
Bruce
Have always wanted one of these but I don't know what vintage/road numbers of Williams GG1s to buy. Do you - or anyone else - know which Williams models have these large Pittman DC motors?
SAL9000,
The version illustrated is from 1978, offered at the TCA convention in that year. Originally, the GG1 and matching Madison's were all painted flat silver with black lettering. Whether that was the first year William's offered a GG1, I'm not sure? How long they offered the big cans is also a mystery to me. IIRC, the GG1 was even offered without an E unit, for those with DC powered layouts. The engine came with factory enclosed instructions on how to install an E unit and bridge rectifier for the AC runners....even a template showing where to drill out the top of the GG1 shell for the reverse lever. Naturally, the entire set contains non-operating couplers and basic lighting.
Probably TMI, but the William's bakelite bodies on the Madison set are "heavyweights", just like the original Lionel Madison's. Because of the bakelite molding process, they have a thicker wall construction than the more recent injected plastic Madison's offered by William's and others these days. The weight and drag created by the "primitive "4 car set ( all have many miles ) really requires all that the GG1 has to give, especially if you have grades like on my layout.
Bruce
Originally, the GG1 and matching Madison's were all painted flat silver with black lettering. Whether that was the first year William's offered a GG1, I'm not sure? How long they offered the big cans is also a mystery to me. IIRC, the GG1 was even offered without an E unit, for those with DC powered layouts.
The silver anniversary GG-1 was Williams first offering of a GG-1. It was single motored, and had a single rectifier to allow it to be run on AC. The single rectifier only fed 1/2 wave DC to the motor so there were pulling power problems. They were delivered without E-units.
Williams did offer some remedy, but I do not recall exactly what.
Did a little homework:
1 - After the sets were shipped, they provided Lionel E-units to all the folks that purchased the set.
2 - They offered folks the option to purchase a second motor / power truck.
3 - the remedy for the single rectifier was to replace it with a bridge rectifier.
There still might have been more.
I saw copies of the second motor letter posted on Ebay, as part of listings for the set.
This information came from the Greenberg book on Williams Trains.
Hi David:
I have the Lionel MPC era number 6-8150 Green 5 stripe PRR GG-1 engine (cab number 4935) in like new condition with very little run time available for sale. Also includes original box and inserts.
If you have any interest, please email me using the email listed in my profile.
Thanks,
Don
C W Burfle posted:Originally, the GG1 and matching Madison's were all painted flat silver with black lettering. Whether that was the first year William's offered a GG1, I'm not sure? How long they offered the big cans is also a mystery to me. IIRC, the GG1 was even offered without an E unit, for those with DC powered layouts.
The silver anniversary GG-1 was Williams first offering of a GG-1. It was single motored, and had a single rectifier to allow it to be run on AC. The single rectifier only fed 1/2 wave DC to the motor so there were pulling power problems. They were delivered without E-units.
Williams did offer some remedy, but I do not recall exactly what.Did a little homework:
1 - After the sets were shipped, they provided Lionel E-units to all the folks that purchased the set.
2 - They offered folks the option to purchase a second motor / power truck.
3 - the remedy for the single rectifier was to replace it with a bridge rectifier.There still might have been more.
I saw copies of the second motor letter posted on Ebay, as part of listings for the set.
This information came from the Greenberg book on Williams Trains.
Thanks, guys. Very interesting about the upgrade options. A couple of more questions:
#1: Which are the early Williams GG1s that have the single Pittman motor? That I could live with. I see many of the the 25th anniversary silver GG1s for sale but are there others? By looking around there seems to be two older boxes - white and yellow. Listings don't typically include year and I don't see it on the boxes, nor do I see notes about single or dual motor.
#2: How well do the large Pittman motors coast, considering they do not have a flywheel?
If you can find one, I have a mth traditional sized gg1 from back when proto1 was an option. With a diecast body and twin motors. In addition to be a good runner, I've also used it to pull up stumps in the back yard! For a conventional engine it's one of my favorites. Being silver wi the a solid red stripe doesn't hurt anything either. If you wanted a traditional size gg1 today I with conventional control I would go williams or mth railking. I also would not shy away from a k line engine in good condition. From a pure maintenance stand point, stay modern enough to have can motors. My $0.02
A semiscale GG1 wont always handle 027. Enlonging the guides slots about 1/16th on each likely needed. Then thats fine but Switches arent . Playing with pilot spring pressure helps but its still poor on the turnout deviations. Straight is best. The jackrabbit start from the protype is well duplicated derailng and all. The tighter turns make that worse too. You can stringline your cars with enough throttle at start.
And the real big issue is the fxed coupler and pilot is made for full O, so in an 027 curve, the coupler is too long to stay centered well and has coupler overhang to the center rail, which means a harder angle is created at the knuckle too. The combo means the GG1 drags a car with bogie sooid mounted coulper off the outside rail of 027 every time. The solution is an articulated coupler arm on the lead car.
For freight, use a dedicated car. A mail car with a passenger cars coupler always fits the bill IMO. Ive used cabooses converted as well, keeping one at both ends for a loco runaround to reverse faster on the line like they did sometimes.
Skip the single motor motor versions, or anniversary unless you get a deal, go for magnetration or modern, always two motors, I traded my MpC away, poor tracking, huge jackrabbit starts, (i think it was too tan). My KLine started better, tracked better, looked better, had more detail, pulled equal, ran quieter, ran on less voltage and lower amps. I am not in the habbit of prefering can motors and not feeling an eunits buzz in the air but I made the exception here, no regrets. An early black or twin engine Brunswick 5 whisker w/magnetration in nice shape is the only way I give this kline up.
The Williams Pitmanns run a bit hot but seemed ok. Another jackrabbit starter just like early Lionels.
Williams can motors today Id expect to be very similar to the Kline, with slightly less detail.
