Ro's website says 9/16
Wow Charles ro wants way more then the other sellers on here . I guess pat or Nassau wins on my preorder .
jojofry posted:Wow Charles ro wants way more then the other sellers on here . I guess pat or Nassau wins on my preorder .
Better hurry!!! They might match Charlie Ro's price. Wouldn't that be a hoot!!! Why leave money on the table? 
David
Rocky Mountaineer posted:jojofry posted:Wow Charles ro wants way more then the other sellers on here . I guess pat or Nassau wins on my preorder .
Better hurry!!! They might match Charlie Ro's price. Wouldn't that be a hoot!!! Why leave money on the table?
David
Considering Ro gets there's probley cheaper I don't get there pricing .. Forget trainwold there in a different zip code to.
I am frustrated. I cannot get to Pat's Trains Lionel 2016 catalogue and/or list of BTO prices. Can someone direct me? I feel brain dead.
jojofry posted:...Considering Ro gets there's probley cheaper I don't get there pricing .. Forget trainwold there in a different zip code to.
Pat's gonna take over the O-Gauge toy train world!!! 
Seriously though... This is what I mean when I say BTO has turned the train business upside down. Ro would typically get the cheapest prices from Lionel because he ordered the most. And with a long-standing customer list built over decades, he could risk placing huge orders with Lionel because folks knew they'd get product from him and he'd be their Number 1 supplier. But with BTO, that entire business model has changed. Smaller businesses can now compete for pre-orders as easy as the big guys -- courtesy of places like this forum, and of course the Internet in general. The rubber meets the road however, when Lionel decides to dump 1/4 to 1/2 Million Dollars worth of product in one huge shipment at their storefront! 
Time for some serious "just-in-time" warehouse space!!! 
Charlie Ro will still get a good chunk of my orders every year, 'cause I know Charlie and have been doing business with him since the early 1970's. I value that kind of relationship, and his passenger car prices are as good as you can find. But I've also sent some dollars Pat's way the last few years since he became a forum sponsor. And of course I have Nicholas Smith Trains and Hennings Trains "in my back yard", and I value that convenience too. So they get some of my business as well. And now there's Steve at Mr. Muffins Trains who gets just about all of my Atlas-O business these days.
Lots of choices out there for sure.
David
Thanks C&O Allie
JC642 posted:>>>$850 is an extremely fair price for a MINT or Like-New JLC piece.<<<<
It was a tongue-in-cheek statement.. Given a choice, if wanted that particular engine , at $850, I'd run, not walk for the JLC..
Joe
Joe, sorry about that... I completely missed the tongue-in-cheek element to your comment. Must have read over it too quickly. My bad. 
Now that I re-read it... of course!!! Who wouldn't want to run and spend a whopping $850 on a Legacy 0-8-0 yard switcher!!! 
Never thought we'd see a steam yard switcher with a pre-order price of $725-$750. 
Seriously though, I think folks have the right thinking when they say this Allegheny deserved true VisionLine treatment. For a couple hundred bucks more, it could have had steam blow-down effects, or steam-chest emissions, along with the depleting coal load, dual speakers in the loco body AND tender, plus roadname/roadnumber-unique Crewtalk sounds. I guess those features will be added in the NEXT re-issue of this model... just like the next release of the N&W "J" will get its one-and-only incremental improvement of whistle-steam (at a near-VisionLine price). 
David
" it could have had steam blow-down effects"
Does anyone stop to think that maybe the real engine didn't have a blow down?
Whether the blow downs, swinging bells, engineer's stripe blue overalls, etc. were real or not it doesn't matter. The point is that for the same price as a Vision engine, it should have similar features.
Ansonnn posted:Whether the blow downs, swinging bells, engineer's stripe blue overalls, etc. were real or not it doesn't matter. The point is that for the same price as a Vision engine, it should have similar features.
Ding. Ding. Ding. Ding. Ding..... Give that man a prize! Thank goodness... SOMEBODY "gets it"!!!
After thinking about it long and hard between an Allegheny with 'just' steam whistle (already have the JLC version) and the new Daylight 4449 with whistle steam, I am gonna go with the GS-4. I figured Lionel will make the Allegheny again and (hopefully) realize its shortcomings and make it a Vision engine (wishful thinking). Man, Lionel, you almost had me if you just put at minimal another speaker in the engine for that stereo effect. Heck, just make smoke leak everywhere from the engine and I will gladly think it is a feature only for this engine.
Scrapiron Scher posted:Are there YouTube videos of these locos where we can hear the different whistles? Thanks to all who contributed to this thread.
Here are some links to YouTube videos with the whistles.
Allegheny: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vz14zIBWspA
Blue Ridge: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kx7iUU8-pZA
This one says its from a C&O 2-6-6-2 but it sounds similar:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWkh02ilF0E
Ken
Big Jim posted:" it could have had steam blow-down effects"
Does anyone stop to think that maybe the real engine didn't have a blow down?
Of course you know better than THAT. The problem for a model maker trying to reproduce exhaust steam effects from the Wilson Blowdown Separator System is, the "separator turbine housing" is generally mounted on top of the firebox area. Since the large electric "can motor" is mounted within the firebox area, it is almost impossible to correctly reproduce the "blowdown steam" effect from that top mounted Wilson separator, which pretty much was the "blowdown system of choice" for the C&O large/modern steam locomotives.
Yes, well sometimes what I am thinking doesn't always get put down in print.
I rather have the blow of steam affects like the vision line challenger had.. To be honest the vision line big boy doesn't have anything on the vision line challenger ..I ran my Black Hudson the other day .. I really wish they would of made it more detailed and flat back! But after all the Lionel price increases the 1300 I spent on it seems like a steal.. There's one At 2k on eBay .
jojofry posted:I rather have the blow of steam affects like the vision line challenger had.. To be honest the vision line big boy doesn't have anything on the vision line challenger
The "blowdown steam" effect on both the Lionel Challenger and Big Boy models is incorrect due to the fact that Lionel was unable to install a "smoke unit" within the firebox. As I stated above, there does NOT seem to be any practical method for the manufacturers to correctly duplicate the "blowdown steam" effect on those models equipped with the Wilson Blowdown Separator System. Thus, all they can do is blow "steam" out the sides of the lower firebox.
Hi Guys,
Speaking of smoke effects here is a video of a German Gauge 1 model with smoke effects that I think are nice. Check out 2:40 and further into the video showing steam being exhausted from the cylinders. For me that is a more common sight than a blow down.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXSMsEGZlBo
Steve
jojofry posted:I ran my Black Hudson the other day .. I really wish they would of made it more detailed and flat back! But after all the Lionel price increases the 1300 I spent on it seems like a steal.. There's one At 2k on eBay .
The recent ESE is an even better deal as its $100 less than the VL and doesn't have the lack of detail ( 100 year old tooling) and gross errors like the squared valve guides.
With folks spending $2000 on a poorly done hudson from a model perspective. Who can blame Lionel for raising the price on the Allegheny, its a far superior model before a single smoke effect is even added.
An EXCELLENT video, and extremely well down "steam exhausts" from the open cylinder cocks, especial on a three cylinder steam locomotive model.
Thanks for posting that.
I am to a bit disapointed with this engine. But i dont have one so thats why i am getting it. I was hopping to for more effects. And why couldn't they do it as vision line?
RickO posted:jojofry posted:I ran my Black Hudson the other day .. I really wish they would of made it more detailed and flat back! But after all the Lionel price increases the 1300 I spent on it seems like a steal.. There's one At 2k on eBay .
The recent ESE is an even better deal as its $100 less than the VL and doesn't have the lack of detail ( 100 year old tooling) and gross errors like the squared valve guides.
With folks spending $2000 on a poorly done hudson from a model perspective. Who can blame Lionel for raising the price on the Allegheny, its a far superior model before a single smoke effect is even added.
I had my finger on the buy it now on the ESE a few times
It was my understanding that lionel wanted to keep some of the original 700E in the new one. I do agree is not super detailed i have one. The only issue with mine was the smoke motor. 2k seems a bit high for one. The VL hudson dose have swinging bell and whistle smoke Hope this helps
I compared the expanded, or "zoomed-in", image of the JLC Allegheny from the earlier catalog, link is http://www.lionel.com/products...gheny-1650-6-38081/, with the expanded image of the Allegheny in the 2016 catalog. I'm not sure whether the 2016 image is just another JLC file image with some photo-shop editing on the number-boards or whether it is an image of what will be released. My perception is that the 2016 image looks a bit less refined than the JLC version but this likely can be the result of the 2016 catalog image quality that many are commenting on.
Lionel appeared to photoshop the JLC image. I compared the 2 photo and they just erased the ash pan glow. I have the Lionel JLC Allegheny #1650 6-83081 along with the VL Clinchfield and UP greyhound Challengers and the VL Big Boy. If Lionel used the same tooling as the JLC it is well worth the$1750 street price. As far as features the JLC is no Big Boy but it is far my favorite steam engine. It has the most delicate separately applied details that blows all of their Vision Line steam locomotive away. However, even though the JLC Allegheny is the heaviest of all the Vision Line it is very fragile You have to be very careful when taking the JLC out of the box. I hope that Lionel make the 2016 Legacy Allegheny more durable without losing detail. The JLC is about 10 years old now but nothing beats new technology. I am going to get the new Allegheny #1601. It is a Vision Line steam locomotive just without the black box.
