Lionel Legacy B&O EM-1 derails on Ross & Gargraves O-72

Check the springs under the pilot truck.  If jarred they may be jammed and not giving pressure to the track.

You could hand it to Mike next week at York and see if he can fix it

Will:

 

 I am sorry to hear about your problems with your EM-1.  I have the Great Northern version of this engine and it runs fine on my Lionel 0-72 tubular track and various generations of Lionel 0-72 switches.  Lionel tubular has to be the worst environment for running these new engines with narrow flanges.  So, it can't be an engineering problem. 

 

Where does your engine derail, ie front truck, front set of drive wheels, rear set of drive wheels or rear truck.  My guess would be that something is restricting the articulation or some of the wheels are terribly out of gauge.

 

 

Will, you may want to check your curves.  On my previous layout where I used Gargraves flex track, my EM1 from ten years ago would derail on two of my curves that I could have sworn were correct 072.  When I used a curve of Lionel 072 tubular track to check the curve, I found a place where the curve was just a little to tight and that is where the forward set of drivers would ride up on the and derail,

 

You are correct, the EM1 is very unforgiving for anything less that 072.

 

Good luck and happy railroading,

Don

Thanks to everyone for your fast replies.

 

The rear engine set of 8 driving wheels, which is the non-articulating engine, consistently derails first, which then sometimes, but now always, causes the trailing truck to derail afterwards. 

 

Watching the derailing process carefully at slow speeds, the articulating front engine set of 8 driving wheels quickly reaches the limit of its swing on O-72 curves and thereafter binds and torques the frame until the rear engine set of driving wheels is displaced from the rails.  This occurs around curves in both directions; that is, the front engine wheel set reaches its limit and thereafter binds on the frame whether swinging to the left or to the right.  The front engine (the articulating one), does not derail at all, nor does the pilot truck.  It's always the non-articulating rear engine and frame that derails.

 

I could be wrong (I often am), but I don't think this is a problem Mike could fix because I don't believe after careful examination of many repetitions at many different places on the layout that this is peculiar to this one unit.  Instead, I suspect it may be endemic to them all.

FWIW, my EM-1 from 2000 navigates O-72 flawlessly. In fact, the previous owner removed the front truck spring so it could run on O-63.

 

If other owners of the new Legacy version say that it runs fine on O-72 for them, I have to believe the problem is specific to your engine.

That is strange, but I don't think it is a design problem.  Mine runs extremely well on my layout, which literally has more 072 track than any other kind!  Click my youtube link below for a video (going into the tunnel is 072, all the switches are 072).  Good luck.

I want to keep the loco and hope it turns out to be an anomaly peculiar to this unit.  But I cannot identify any manufacturing defect such as insufficient machining that might be causing it.

 

Frankly I was hoping someone else had already posted a similar Legacy EM-1 issue with a subsequent resolution (a fix) that I could learn from. 

 

Jeff says his unit works perfectly on O-72, so maybe there's something wrong with this unit i just haven't discovered yet.

 

Thanks, everyone.  Please let me know if you have other ideas or advice based on direct experience with the Legacy EM-1.

Will,

 

it could be that the wires from the roller pick up of the front truck to the connecting point inside the boiler are not long enough to support the sviwelling truck in the curves. Then the engine will derail in curves even with larger radius. I observed that at a Big Boy some years ago , lengthening the wires to the roller pick would remedy that.

 

Regards

 

Albrecht

Not to insult you, but check if all of the packing foam inserted to keep the trucks from banging around during shipment is removed from the trucks.  

 

I removed the usual U shaped inserts and such when I unpacked mine.  But about a week later, I saw while running it that there was a flash of white underneath -- I had missed a small one-inch by one-inch section of foam about 1/4 inch thick deep inside between one of the trucks and the body of the loco.  It was hard to see, and mine ran fine on 72" and 84" curves even with it in place, but I could see it getting in the way . . . just a thought . . . 

Albrecht and Lee,

 

Thank you for your suggestions.  Lee, believe me, I've overlooked impedimenta such as you suggest from under engines and felt pretty sheepish afterwards.  I thought about that when the loco first derailed, and also considered Albrecht's suggestion that it might be a wire harness binding underneath.  So I took the engine to my large cradle (again--I had already checked it for grease) and carefully inspected underneath with full light enhancement.  Nothing.  The front engine seems to articulate well and freely to its maximum extent.

 

Thank you again for the ideas.  Wish it was so.

Will

I had a derailing problem with my JLC GG1.  The leading truck would jump the outside rail on 072 curves.   Quick fix was to bank the outside rail using 1/8 shims under the ties.  Minimal effort and it solved the problem.

Good luck

Thanks, Tony, but the pilot truck never derails.  it's always the rear engine and frame.

 

I run very large locomotives on my layout, including the Lionel Vision Line Clinchfield Challenger 4-6-6-4, 3 Lionel N&W Y3 2-8-8-2s, 3 Lionel JLC Y6b 2-8-8-2s, 3 Lionel 2-6-6-2s, 2 Lionel Vision Lin PRR 0-8-8-0s, and the Lionel JLC C&O H8 2-6-6-6.  They all track perfectly everywhere and have never derailed.  This problem is unique to this locomotive.  I am returning it to Just Trains to swap for a 2nd Lionel Legacy N&W 2-6-6-2.  I already have one, and it's a winner!  Wish the EM-1 would cooperate, as it's a beautiful model.

 

Thanks to everyone for your advice and recommendations.

Will,

I have the 2000 version and noticed that mine would derail as well. Mostly the pilot truck, but sometime the rear.  I had to upgrade to Ross Reg. which are 0-100.

 

It seems everyone has hit on the usual suspects. Have you checked the gauge of the wheels to see if they are correctly spaced?

Will,

One thing to check that it's seems no one ever looks at is:
Are the second set of rollers in just the right spot to push the switch point that's NOT laying against the rail outward slightly?thereby bringing the switch point that IS against the rail out just enough for the wheels to pick the switch?
It's not going to spark because those rails are insulated but a roller can push on that free point and cause problems. Especially with a heavy engine.

David