Lionel Legacy Santa Fe Alco PA-A ordered from Western Depot

I can tell you that this issue was very random on when it seemed to trigger the lost ID. I was one of the first folks in the initial thread when my UP ABA Alco PA had the issue. I did a lot of personal testing and tried different scenarios. I had it go 1 day, 3 days, and even a full week without it losing the ID again. With that said, if the shop ran it around a few times and turned it on and off the issue may not have presented itself at that time.

When I did send it to Lionel to get fixed, it came back working 100% with no issues and I didn't pay a dime.

INGENIERO NO1 - Don't know whether you've seen it or not but Eric Siegel did a video review (on Eric's Trains) of his Santa Fe AA set of these engines (which also had problems) and I thought he put things in perspective as far as Lionel 'standing behind their product' was concerned.

That said, I hope things work out satisfactorily for you and look forward to your future post once you get the engines returned.

I for one think Western Depot needs to be commended on their response. The first step in this process either after a call to Lionel or before was to contact them. 

while it may had not been intentional, the tone of your original post seem to imply that they lied about testing them. I’m glad they reached out to you. Very classy on their part. 

MartyE posted:

I for one think Western Depot needs to be commended on their response.

Hear, hear.  In the past year, I had two Lionel dealers (yes, sadly forum sponsors) either refuse to pay return shipping or tell me "take it up with Lionel".  Western Depot handled this correctly.

That is a shame Alex for sure. I do not have a lot to say without sounding negative. I am glad my dealer offered to ship my set to Lionel for me to take care of the issue before any money changed hands. This certainly saved me a lot of headaches. However, it is now a number of weeks and I am getting anxious to receive my AA set. 

I am sure everything will work out. Please report when you get the units back.

Thanks.

Donald

Western Depot is a class act.  I live about thirty miles from them and buy all my engines there.  They've always been willing to crack open the boxes and test drive them before I pay and leave.  Heck, they've even asked me sometimes if I wanted the engine pulled apart and greased up at no extra charge.  Good crew there. 

Items with “known issues” should be fixed before they are put up for sale. 

For sure you’re in good hands with Western Depot.  I hope you’re happy with the set when it returns from Lionel.

-Brian

I had to return my UP & NYC.  At the time it was very frustrating.  Matt also had his hair coming out also if I remember correctly.  Hopefully I’m accurate in this post Matt.  End of the day, many months later I marvel watching these beauties go around the layout.  Sewing machine smooth.  I’m confident you will feel the same joy when returned.  Remember “It only hurts once”.

As far as Western Depot.  Class act.  No one better.  Definitely in the top10 in my dealers.  Enjoy your SFs Alex.  I’m out of room and jealous.

Hello Alex. Your report is detailed and professional. I think you’ll have to suffer the frustration of a factory return, BUT on the back end you’ll get an excellent product. I would love to see it on your terrific layout when it arrives back from the factory. Hang in there. 

Yes, I watched Eric's video, which is why, in addition to other reviews I had read, I requested that the engines be tested prior to shipping.

I have no doubt that Western Depot conducted testing, but evidently something changed between the conclusion of their test and my attempt to run the engines. I sort of understand why the lead engine exhibited the faulty remote responses; but cannot understand why the trailing engine did absolutely nothing. The number [54] on the side of the trailing engine turned on when the track was powered, but that was it; absolutely no response to anything else - dead.

Agree 100% - Western Depot's response was commendable, which is what I stated on my reply email to them. They indeed lived up to their excellent reputation with their offer to resolve the issue to my satisfaction.

Ale

Hey Alex. Here is my timeline that I had for my AA units. On 02/11, Charles Ro sent my set to Lionel. Today, 03/06 I received notice that the set is being sent to me and I should have them 03/10. Hope that gives you something to look forward to! 

I might add that Charles Ro did not charge my CC until the engines were received back by them and they sent them to me today. There are a number of good dealers and I never had a bad experience with Charles Ro. I also purchased from Western Depot and a few others with never a problem when it came to customer service.

Donald

I went ahead and sent the PAA unit to Lionel a few weeks ago, and their initial reply as to when they would be done was end of March, and then followed with an email stating first part of April. I sent them en email today, and their reply stated that they are shut down through the end of April. I understand that this is not a critical situation, but it is very frustrating as now is when I have (forced to) plenty of time to run the trains, take videos, etc.

Oh well, such is life.

(No need to say it in a foreign language: - así es la vida, c'est la vie, così è la vita, so ist das Leben. Although come to think of it,  that is something we can brush up on now with all the time we have.)

Alex

Yesterday, June 13, I received the SF PAA unit back from Lionel. They had received it March 6, and had an original estimated repair completion date of April 6, but then Covid-19 struck, and Lionel was shut down. I sent them an email about once a month, and each time they replied that they were not open yet. 

Last email I sent them was on Jun 11, and I received the automatic email received from 'Talk to us", but that was it - no further details.

But just one day later, on June 12, I received a phone call from FedEx saying that a shipment would be delivered Jun 13, and provided a tracking number. The tracking number details showed Concord as the origin, so I knew it was my long awaited SF PAA.

Yes, the locomotives work fine now.

Alex

PS. Soon will have a video update of the layout and it history, and it will include the SF PAA.

Alex:

Excellent news. Thanks for sharing.

Pat

In the realm of the Almighty Coulomb 

“testing, tested, test” are terms with subjective results at best. 

As a former Northern Telecom Bench Tech and South Western Bell/SBC/at&t (yes-it’s actually lower case) Technician-I have seen the “Ghost in the Machine”, which is created by the unknown and unwanted byproducts of capacitors and resistors in a Circuit. 

And any Technician who actually has concern about their work and reputation knows that “plug and play” does not a test make. 

In my Union, we have a phrase-

“Quality ain’t Cheap and Cheap ain’t Quality” and by extension, “Concern ain’t Fast”

And that is a big problem we all are facing-in every instance; concern has been replaced by speed. 
Just because the short sighted small minded have proclaimed “Time is Money”, does not alter the fact that “Haste makes Waste”. Especially when more Time is ****ed away, redoing anything not done correctly the first time. 
True Concern is a component of Pride. 
When an individual has Pride in what they do, the Concern is evident. 

People will wait for Quality. 
And when Quality is provided, Quantity naturally comes along-because if you’re not wasting Time redoing something, you have that Time for other things. 

Years ago, my son played baseball parents had to work the concession stand. The manager of the location told me that when I cooked the food, sales were higher..he wanted to know what I did. 

It was simple, I cooked the burgers and brats ahead of time, just as everyone else 

but, I put them back on the grill, for a minute, before I put them on the bun. 

Sales increased because of a trick I was taught as a cook at jack in the box when I was 16. The manager directed all the cooks to do the same. 

And I did it, because I had gotten cold food, and my concern was to ensure others did not. 

It matters not what the issue; testing a component, selling food, wearing a mask in public, putting out a house fire-Quality and Concern are requirements of a sustainable success. 

Glad you got the best result at last, Alex. 

@1drummer posted:

In the realm of the Almighty Coulomb 

“testing, tested, test” are terms with subjective results at best. 

As a former Northern Telecom Bench Tech and South Western Bell/SBC/at&t (yes-it’s actually lower case) Technician-I have seen the “Ghost in the Machine”, which is created by the unknown and unwanted byproducts of capacitors and resistors in a Circuit. 

And any Technician who actually has concern about their work and reputation knows that “plug and play” does not a test make. 

In my Union, we have a phrase-

“Quality ain’t Cheap and Cheap ain’t Quality” and by extension, “Concern ain’t Fast”

And that is a big problem we all are facing-in every instance; concern has been replaced by speed. 
Just because the short sighted small minded have proclaimed “Time is Money”, does not alter the fact that “Haste makes Waste”. Especially when more Time is ****ed away, redoing anything not done correctly the first time. 
True Concern is a component of Pride. 
When an individual has Pride in what they do, the Concern is evident. 

People will wait for Quality. 
And when Quality is provided, Quantity naturally comes along-because if you’re not wasting Time redoing something, you have that Time for other things. 

Years ago, my son played baseball parents had to work the concession stand. The manager of the location told me that when I cooked the food, sales were higher..he wanted to know what I did. 

It was simple, I cooked the burgers and brats ahead of time, just as everyone else 

but, I put them back on the grill, for a minute, before I put them on the bun. 

Sales increased because of a trick I was taught as a cook at jack in the box when I was 16. The manager directed all the cooks to do the same. 

And I did it, because I had gotten cold food, and my concern was to ensure others did not. 

It matters not what the issue; testing a component, selling food, wearing a mask in public, putting out a house fire-Quality and Concern are requirements of a sustainable success. 

Glad you got the best result at last, Alex. 

Alex,

Is there any chance you’d speak at my airline’s next shareholders meeting?   Pilots are paid too much...Maintenance is farmed out due to the cost etc.  They’ll gladly spend two dollars to save fifty cents, and it shows.  Bean counters have taken over and again, it shows. 

Tom

@FlyPlanes-PlayTrains posted:

Alex,

Is there any chance you’d speak at my airline’s next shareholders meeting?   Pilots are paid too much...Maintenance is farmed out due to the cost etc.  They’ll gladly spend two dollars to save fifty cents, and it shows.  Bean counters have taken over and again, it shows. 

Tom

my name isn’t Alex

Alex, this is a great thread, I read your story about the issues you’ve had with the PA set. Although it took a lot of time from beginning to a Happy ending, it’s great to know Lionel did their part in repairing and getting you satisfied. Thanks for sharing this with us. I’m beginning to really like the PA style diesels, especially the fact that both units are powered. Happy Railroading 

Congratulations Alex. All good things come to those who wait. It was a shame this whole virus thing shut down our country as great as ours. But....you got your engines and that is all that matters.

they are great......aren't they?

Donald