Lionel NYC GP9 TMCC 6-18563 A Little Help Please

Chief MS2 here. That is one of the first models that had TMCC it came out in NYC and SP. Have you tried cleaning and relubing everything. I know it's new in box but that can still be a problem sitting for 20 years. I just sold mine as it was just sitting but I already had the coil couplers added. when adding the couplers you only have two prongs to connect to one for front one for rear. Your couplers as you probably know come with 2 wires each. The easiest way I came across doing this is one coupler cut one wire about 2" up from the plug, then do the same on the other one now splice the second one you cut to the 2" piece coming from the other plug. now the other two wires ( one from each coupler ( you will need to cut other plug off also ) splice together and attach them to a ground on the frame. Make sure the couplers connect with the front coupler connected to the front prong. ( of coarse get it back wards just turn the plug around. )

It's a great engine. I still have one but it's new in it's box in the set box with the rest of the cars. If you want the rest of the cars that came with the set let me know as I have extra's just not in there boxes. It came with a remake of the 6464-275 Boxcar, A single dome sunoco Tank car, a flat with the LLC two racing cars, and the NYC illuminated Caboose.  

Bob,

I have the Pennsy version.  Typically, with pullmor TMCC locs, they do not start moving until you get to speed steep 10-15.  They require more power to get moving.  As suggested above, a good lube on a 20 year old engine is a good thing and should help.  What I do with pullmor locs is to set the stall setting.  With a stall setting, the loc will start to move at speed step 1 or 2.  The stall setting is basically a starting speed step.  I forget the exact steps to do that but its in the manual for the engine.

Joe

As Stated lube than break it in.  I have the full roster of these including dummy units upgraded with TMCC couplers and directional lighting.  They do run fine on my CAB-1 for what they are.  G

Joe's advice is spot on.  Stall Speed is the key to get the engine moving without a lot of fuss.  Lube never hurts.

Break it in and set the stall function.  It will start at one speed step and crawl if you do this properly.  Great engine.  All of the TMCC Geeps are.  Play with it and set the stall where it will start at the first touch of the Cab.  I kind of like the Railsounds, is it 2, in these engines, where you have to raise the engine sounds manually.  A lot of fun to play with.  

As a side note, until about a month ago, I had every TMCC GP7/9 that Lionel built.  So I guess you could say I'm a big fan.  I had to sell all my stuff, but I did keep the 2 CBQs, the CNW and the Wabash triple lash up set.  Great engines.  They span the entire TMCC history from start to finish.  The story and progression in Railsounds is heard and told in the  long line of TMCC Geeps.  Im pretty sure I bought the last one I needed to complete my collection from GGG, the second Pennsy offered.  Another great engine.  A moment of silence  please.  After the NYC and two SP engines. All the TMCC Geeps had different and distinct Railsounds, bells and horns and engine specific crewtalk.  Get one of the last ones made, the NP or Rock Island, and those are some sweet engines.  The two custom series are way cool... Ok, I'll stop now.  I miss my guys ...

I've got the Pennsy version from 1997 as well, still runs great! One of my favorite loco's.

Here's a video from Lionel explaining in detail how to set the stall speed on TMCC loco's;

First, thank you to everyone who took time out of their busy schedules to respond!  I will try to reply in the order in which the posts were received.

Bill;  Thanks for the suggestions.  The Electro Couplers are on the way and when I open her up do the coupler up-grade I'll clean and lube accordingly.   Thanks for the helpful instructions as well.  I'll pass on the cars for now but I may contact you in the future is that's OK with you.

Joe;  Thanks for the "Heads-Up" regarding the Stall Speed.   I remember seeing a reference to that in the manual but I'll wait until I add the Electro Couplers, Clean and Lube and a bit of "Break-In" before attempting that.   Thanks for your input!

Hey G;  This is actually my second TMCC "Geep".  My first one was the Pennsy GP9 which I sold numerous years ago (tisk, tisk).   I'm sure that once I get her broken in she will become a favorite.   Thanks for chiming in.  I'm always interested in what you have to offer!

MARTYE;  Thanks for the picture of the instructions.   I currently have a Legacy 990 and after the break in I'll be using that information to set the stall speed.  Thanks for your input.  It is greatly appreciated!

WILLIAM1;  I guess I'm just used to the Legacy engines that I have.   Once she's had all the required Back-Shop work done I'll be tinkering with the stall speed adjustment to get her to function like a Legacy engine (well, almost).   Similarly, I had to sell all my stuff for more important matters many years ago  but now I can be a little lighthearted when it involves model railroading.   Your response is appreciated!

Again, thanks to everybody who shared their experiences regarding their TMCC Geep's.

Chief Bob (Retired)

Thanks PENN-PACIFIC for the Excellent Video!   It is very well explained!

Chief Bob (Retired)

Bob

Good luck!  Everyone here is willing to help.  It makes this forum great.  A pool of information without the need of too much chlorine!

Putting the electrocouplers in is an easy, fun task.  Especially when they work!  When you've done it once on a TMCC Geep, you can do another in fifteen minutes easy.  Enjoy your second wind.

William 1 posted:

Great engine.  All of the TMCC Geeps are.  Play with it and set the stall where it will start at the first touch of the Cab.  I kind of like the Railsounds, is it 2, in these engines, where you have to raise the engine sounds manually.  A lot of fun to play with.  

The sounds on these Geeps happen to be particularly outstanding. Although they had earlier incarnations of RailSounds, whether it's the size and shape of the shell or whatever factors figured into the end result, they have been acknowledged by many as having great sounding systems.

William 1 posted:

Great engine.  All of the TMCC Geeps are.  Play with it and set the stall where it will start at the first touch of the Cab.  I kind of like the Railsounds, is it 2, in these engines, where you have to raise the engine sounds manually.  A lot of fun to play with.  

The sounds on these Geeps happen to be particularly outstanding. Although they had earlier incarnations of RailSounds, whether it's the size and shape of the shell or whatever factors figured into the end result, they have been acknowledged by many as having great sounding systems.

William 1 posted:

Great engine.  All of the TMCC Geeps are.  Play with it and set the stall where it will start at the first touch of the Cab.  I kind of like the Railsounds, is it 2, in these engines, where you have to raise the engine sounds manually.  A lot of fun to play with.  

The sounds on these Geeps happen to be particularly outstanding. Although they had earlier incarnations of RailSounds, whether it's the size and shape of the shell or whatever factors figured into the end result, they have been acknowledged by many as having great sounding systems.

I have a number of these "traditional" TMCC/RailSounds equipped Geeps from the late 90s into the 2000s, and have had as much fun with them as anything. Even relatively slow speed operation is possible - I have a Milwaukee GP-9 that has a well-broken-in Pullmor that crawls very nicely, pulling a matching GP-9 dummy B unit.

The later versions of these Geeps (as production went along, more features were added) had diecast fuel tanks, diecast trucks, and diecast pilots, and with that heft their pulling power is very good. One thing that's fun is swapping shells with earlier MPC-era Geeps to get different road names and convert the earlier engine to TMCC/RS. On one swapped-shell engine, I used the strobe light from the later version TMCC engine, added another headlight below the original, mounted the strobe behind the added headlight assembly, and created a simulated "MARS" light. Lots of projects are possible with these versatile engines.

They are definitely fun to play with.  I had every one.  I should have kept the custom series ones.  The dragster sounds were really cool.  Interestingly enough, they came programmed as long hood forward was forward from the factory, and you could not adjust the engine RPMs manually, they had to be activated by engine speed.  Those are cool, figuring out how to do burn outs at every speed step.  I guess you could say, not exactly prototypical.  The glow in the dark AEC was fun.  The Rock Island is the only one that had two announcements when you pressed Aux7, meaning the first is standby, press Aux7 again and it says go.  That is not exactly true though.  The Norfolk Southern that came in a service station set with three trailer flat cars had two different messages.  The first said 'please proceed to your nearest Lionel service station'.  Those are the only two that have different towercom messages when you push Aux7.  The triple lashup sets are all real nice.  I liked the double UP set and then add on the UP unit with the die cast ore cars.  And I would run them with the CP unit in a quad lashup.  Talk about some serious soundage.  And I like the orange Lionel Lines one too.  The Milwaukee Road pair are very handsome and I love that double horn on the one unit.  Lionel really did give individual sounds to each of these engines, besides the NYC and SP, which are the same, and with the different Railsounds in each engine they are a lot of fun to run in different combinations.  As you can tell, I miss my guys, but with no layout to let them run on, I let them go.  The Rock Island may be the top of the line.  The NP and merger SP/SF are pretty cool too...  Then there's that funky horn in the ACL purple guy...  Alas.

Another thing to check is which mode it was programed in. It will run much smoother if your in TMCC mode than Cab1 mode.

Hit Info on the top right corner of your remote and scroll with the red dial until you reach the different modes (Cab1, TMCC & Legacy) and pick TMCC.

Well guys, here's one for the books.    I added the Electro Couplers, cleaned and lubed my new Geep and decided to take her for a test run.  I put her on the track, fired up the Legacy (after I programmed the Geep of course) and that is when things didn't go so good.   The good news is that the Electro Couplers worked exactly as they should and I was able to set the "Stall".   Here's the Not So Good News.   I know that the engine has to be "broken it" but it would surge as it was going down the track.  Also, as it reached the furthest point from the power supply (I'm using a Z 4K) it actually slowed down to a complete stop.   This is about 18' away from the power supply.  I had the 4K set between 18 and 19 volts and when I checked the point where the locomotive stopped (it was on a curve as well) the meter was reading between 17 and 17.4 volts.  I do not have a complete loop as of yet but I am using the "Star" wiring technique because I have a DCS Control that I will be running as well so this section of track was isolated from the first section but it had a power feeder.  I'm using 14Ga. stranded wire for my feeders.  Now get this.  Just for S & G I decided to try the Geep in Conventional mode and she ran MUCH better than in TMCC.   It still slowed down at the spot where it had stopped before but it didn't stop.  I'm not sure I know what is going here.   Also, no more surging.  I was actually able to "Throttle Down" and almost get her to "Creep".   Well, what do you guys think?  I'll try one of my Legacy engines as soon as I get a chance and I'll see what happens with it.

Chief Bob (Retired)

Motor tune up, clean wheels and pickups, make sure pickup wire not loose or broken (common).  G

GGG posted:

Motor tune up, clean wheels and pickups, make sure pickup wire not loose or broken (common).  G

I totally understand the wheels and pickups but I am not sure what you mean regarding Motor tune up.   As I originally stated, this engine was Brand New Never Run (New Old Stock) when I got it.   Another thing I don't understand is why it runs better in conventional than Legacy (TMCC Mode).   I was also thinking of setting up a temporary loop of track on the floor for some continuous running which would expedite the break in procedure.  Did I mention that the Electro Couplers I installed work great?   Thanks for the reply!

Chief Bob (Retired)

If it runs fine in conventional must be something else.  Despite new has sat for decades. Can have corrosion or binding in motor, brushes, commutator etc...  Taking apart and doing maintenance/inspection and lubrication can't hurt.  Pullmore are also sensitive to brush tension and I think you have a thrust adjustment with the set screw on top.   Otherwise maybe something with CAB-2 set up???  Anyone nearby with a CAB-1 TMCC set up to test with?  G

Maybe an antenna issue? check that wire that runs to the antenna strip at the top of the shell for good connection as well. And just for good measure make sure program switch is in the run position, (made that mistake myself once ).

I checked the antenna and it's OK.  Program switch is in the "Run" position.

Try running in Cab1 mode on the Legacy and not TMCC. Early TMCC units sometimes do not respond well to the TMCC protocol the Legacy uses.

Try reseating the R4LC Receiving board. I had one that I thought the board was bad, but all it really needed I found out after buying a new one was it needed to be reseated. 

rtraincollector posted:

Try reseating the R4LC Receiving board. I had one that I thought the board was bad, but all it really needed I found out after buying a new one was it needed to be reseated. 

Bill, These Early NYC & SP GPs used LCRU or LCRU2, so no modular.  G

Probably already tried this, but I'll throw it out there, how about a feature reset back to factory settings? Sometimes, all these micro-processors need is a reboot. 

Captaincog posted:

Try running in Cab1 mode on the Legacy and not TMCC. Early TMCC units sometimes do not respond well to the TMCC protocol the Legacy uses.

You Are correct Captain.   I took your advice and the Geep works much better in Cab1 mode than in TMCC mode.

Chief Bob (Retired)

Penn-Pacific posted:

Probably already tried this, but I'll throw it out there, how about a feature reset back to factory settings? Sometimes, all these micro-processors need is a reboot. 

Yep, with the help of G I was able to "reboot" back to factory settings and now she works fine.   However, IMO, she seems to run a bit smoother in conventional.

Chief Bob (Retired)

Greetings Everyone,

Once again, I would just like to thank all of those who took the time to share their expertise (especially G) with me to resolve the problem I experienced with my new Geep.   It never ceases to amaze me how quickly this community is to respond in order to help fellow members resolve their problems.   Is this a GREAT hobby or what?

Chief Bob (Retired)  

Your Welcome Bob.  Hate to have to see you return a gift, especially a train gift!    G

For Future reference, early LCRUs did not have a programming reset.  You established how the feature outputs worked via hardwire of wires coming out of the LCRU.  When Lionel moved to the LCRU2 which has actual molex connectors on it rather than pins and wires, it actually could be programmed, therefore you can reset features just like you do with Modular TMCC units.   G