Lionel O27 manual switches. Do the converging tracks mechanically switch over OK when train goes through? Reliable?

Manny, as an 027 user and operator, I've always felt the biggest drawback to 027 track was the electric turnouts being powered through track power. For them to be triggered reliably, you need to run a locomotive that has enough current draw to also activate the turnout. So most engines with a open frame AC motor will do this, whereas many of the more recent engines with truck mounted DC can motors may not. You need to be running the engine fast enough also to put the necessary current to the turnout solenoid, which makes runing trains at slower speeds much more difficult. There's also the other disadvantage that the switch tracks "clatter" as the entire length of the train runs through them, if you are utilizing a non-derailing set up to the turnout.

You can alter the electric turnouts to operate on secondary power, like the 0 gauge tubular turnouts. Personally I stuck with manual turnouts, some of which I have chopped down to allow more layout design and scenery options. For turnouts out of easy reach, I use nylon fishline to activate the direction of the switch, which is easily done with the post 1970 turnout design started by Lionel MPC and used from then on.

On a side note, I've also rewired my 027 uncoupling tracks to operate off fixed voltage secondary power (a great use for smaller extra transformers) instead of track power as they come from the manufacturer.

 Isolated rail triggers, can be used as an anti-derail on most turnouts.(ho uses this too)  I'd say it is more reliable than ho most of the time; the weight helps here too.(they are more dust finicky imo).

Using track power on the point motor is 0-27s weakness. They really need a mod and addition of a wire so they can work off of a constant voltage vs variable.  If you run at about 14v they are pretty snappy.

Anti derail reliability and wheel/track durability can be increased by using a low draw relay on an iso-rail trigger. If the iso-trigger rail has a large current draw across it, it will micro-spark and arc between wheels and track. It takes a while, but those tiny pits add up over time. A relay only uses a tiny current , and it's contacts do the heavy acc. work.

The 1122 need the electrical traces to the center rails cut to use constant.voltage instead of varible track power to be "great"

I disassembled one to get to know it, made the cuts, etc... but after, I marked with sharpie and made two "blind" slices with a Dremel grinding disk , just deep enough to cut the bottom steel, fishpaper layer, and trace each time. Carefully remove burrs. If a clean cut paper too, your done. You can tape the hole edges, but without burrs the thickness of the fishpaper is all the clearance truely needed. 

@Mannyrock posted:

I have read that on the Lionel 07 manual switches, the switch will mechanically switch over when an engine or car passes through on a converging track.   But do they reliably do this?

I had a large HO set, and those switchers were suppose to switch over too when a train came in on a converging track.  But, about 1 in 5 times, the engines would derail.  Also, if you were backing the train cars over the switch, the light caboose would always derail.

Thanks,

Mannyrock

 

Do you mean the 1022 manual O-27 switches? They definitely DO NOT switch when a train enters the wrong path. But, they DO shut off power to the appropriate path if installed correctly.

The Fastrack 36 inch manual switches DO flip automatically, and do it reasonably well. Still may have trouble with very light cars. But you said O27, so I assume you mean the 1022, not the Fastrack.

I think the other responders are all talking about electric switches, not manual switches. Are you asking about the electric switches?

Which switches (part number) are you referring to?

Larry

I’ve never owned any but if they are manual haw can they switch without electricity. If they are spring loaded then maybe they can. 

^^What PLCProf and romiller said.  If you're talking about Lionel's brown O27 switch that doesn't have a solenoid / coil, the swivel rails will not move on their own.  If you need that feature, you'll have to spend a little more for the motorized O27 switch, or step up to O36 Fasttrack (if you have room for it.)

One more option... I think the points on Ross O31 switches are spring-loaded.  You can get manual "ground throw" levers to operate them.  Not sure how the price of this combo compares to Lionel.  Hope this helps!

Yep, I missed the "manual" part.

A manual turnout will sometimes drop power to the center rail of the misaligned exit. Mine dont.(brown dor panel)

Using a plastic center pin on the tracks connecting to each exit forms an antiderail via dead rails. You can customize how many tracks go dead before the turnout to account for coasting engines.  

I think one set on 0-27 manual turnouts did have slip points as in they didnt lock well (or work well as slip points)

FasTrack manuals use "slip points"  that allow flanges to squeeze though and points to spring shut after.  

The all-manual 1022 Lionel postwar and the 5022 switches from the MPC/Fundimensions era don't have any spring/slip feature. The points lock in both straight and diverging positions, so anything running through one against however it's lined-up will derail.

The 1022's did have a reliable electrical cutoff to prevent a train from driving through when the wiring was set up correctly. In general, the 1022's are more rugged.

The 5022's were serviceable, but not really as nice. I don't recall them having the electrical cut-off feature of the 1022s. All of the sections of my old layout using 5022's were wired as insulated blocks with power cutoff switches on the layout's main panel.

Also, 5022's on a typical plywood layout could "creep" open from the vibration of heavy trains passing over them. They just had manual sliding actuating lever that was connected to the same linkage as the remote-controlled version's solenoid actuator. (1022's stay set positively by their gear-and-lever operation, with a lever that must move up-and-over 180 degrees to move the points.) Usually what happens with 5022's is the locomotive and a few cars will make it through a set of facing points, then the sliding mechanism creeps open and a passing wheelset will pick the switch causing a derailment. All my 5022's on the mainline had a piece of bent wire or metal looped around the sliding actuating lever that then wrapped around the front base of the housing over the mechanism, holding in place by spring tension as a safety measure.

1022's seem to be more reliable mechanically, although one tended to lose contact in the center rail power distribution system as it aged. Replacing the rivet in the wide part of the center rail would probably fix the problem; although in my case, what worked was flowing a bit of solder around the rivet and then smoothing the surface flush with the rail.

5022's aren't as nicely made, but by and large they held up better than they probably had a right to. Their tolerances weren't the best in the world; in particular, tire-traction F3 diesels tended to "bang" hard against the frog on some of them. That plus the need to put a spring-wire "safety lock" on them in mainline use tended to make me less confident in them. But they did hold up for years.

These that I'm mentioning -- 1022 and 5022 models -- are O27, as the original post asked. The wider-radius full-O switches tend to be completely different designs, and are in general more robust. O27 never got as much love -- although the 1022s are rather nice overall.

1022's have a very low profile, so longer equipment isn't likely to hang up going through them as long as the trucks and coupler angles can tolerate it. (The little switchstand direction indicator can even be removed and left out if you need.) 5022's have a much bigger, bulky housing that will get in the way and foul longer locomotives and cars with much overhang -- although they will clear anything rated as "O27" in the Lionel catalogs of the day. (Which means MPC "Baby Madisons" will pass them, but real "Madison Cars" will get stuck against the housing; plastic short streamline passenger cars are OK but the aluminum cars won't pass.)

Boys, I was asking about "manual" switches, that "mechanically" switch over if trains come through on one of the converging tracks but the lever is in place for the other converging track.   Not electric.

In HO scale, they manual switches would mechanically switch over, due to some type of spring loaded device.  No electricity involved.

From what I gather from all of the replies, the manual switches for 027 gauge don't do this.  (I am excluding Fasttrack, which I am not using.)

Thanks for all of the info.

Mannyrock

I think Mannyrock is asking if they act like slip switches.

No Manny, I don't think they do

Manual 1022:  Not spring loaded.  Must be thrown to avoid derailments.  Has power switch to turn off the track with points against it, which is useful for killing power to sidings, et cetera. 

Electric 1122:  Operate on track power.  Will throw points when train approaches.  Work more reliably when modified to work on fixed power.  

Mitch 

@Adriatic posted:

FasTrack manuals use "slip points"  that allow flanges to squeeze though and points to spring shut after.  

No, they don't. The points throw over to the other position.

LOL      c'mon guys, read the post before answering questions not asked.

He just wanted to know specifically about Lionel manual 0-27 and whether or not it had slip/spring capability.

Well, he asked about "07" if you want to split hairs. And we got there, possibly even covered the next related post's questions