Could someone please summarize the differences among the 671, 681, 682 and 2020
Thank You
Bill
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The info in the links above "abridged"
671- 46-59 & 52
The 671 (along with its 027 gauge counterpart the 2020) was the first turbine introduced by Lionel. Originally introduced in 1946, it remained in the line until 1949. It also made a brief appearance in 1952, but was finally discontinued after a single year of production.none of the 671 turbines have Magnetraction,
671 with Smoke Bulb - This version which was produced only in 1946, uses a special light bulb to heat up the smoke pellets and to convert them to smoke. The easiest way to recognize this version is by looking into the smokestack. If you see a light bulb in the smokestack, it's the Smoke Bulb version. Standard features of this turbine include: three position E-unit (without a lever protruding from the top of the shell), smoke bulb, plain drive wheels and a single drive rod plus a headlight. The pilot and trailing trucks were always die-cast. The tender was always a whistling tender, numbered 671W.
671R with Electronic Control - Produced from 1946 - 1949, this is a special locomotive included with the infamous Electronic Control Set. It has a unique feature in that the operator was able to operate or uncouple any of the trains in the Electronic Control Set anywhere on the track, at any point in time! Pretty impressive for the late 1940s! Standard features of this turbine include: Electronic Control unit, three position E-unit (with a lever protruding from the top of the shell), smoke element, plain drive wheels and a single drive rod plus a headlight. The pilot and trailing trucks were always die-cast. It came with a whistling tender, numbered either 4424W or 4671W.
671 with Smoke Element - The 671 with smoke element was introduced in 1947 and is the most common version. This locomotive is basically the same as the Electronic Control version, but without the Electronic Control feature. Standard features of this turbine include: three position E-unit, smoke element, plain drive wheels and a single drive rod plus a headlight. The pilot and trailing trucks were always die-cast. It always came with a whistling tender, numbered 671W.
671RR - (essentially a 681 turbine without Magnetraction). Due to material shortages caused by the Korean War, the 681 Magnetraction version from 1951 was eliminated from all locomotives in 1952. For this reason, Lionel re-ran the 671 and labelled it 671 RR (for re-run). Actual 671 RR locomotives were designated on the cab as either 671 RR or simply 671. Standard features of the 671 RR include: three position E-unit, smoke element, plain drive wheels and a single drive rod plus a headlight. The pilot and trailing trucks were always die-cast metal. The tender was the 2046W-50 Pennsylvania whistling tender
The 2020 46-59
This turbine locomotive remained in the Lionel family through four production years. However, during its run there were two different versions of that engine. The following is a summary of each:
2020 with Smoke Bulb - This version which was produced only in 1946, uses a special light bulb to heat up the smoke pellets and to convert them to smoke. The easiest way to recognize this version is by looking into the smokestack. If you see a light bulb in the smokestack, it's the Smoke Bulb version. Standard features of this turbine include: three-position E-unit (without a lever protruding from the top of the shell), smoke bulb, nickel-rimmed drive wheels and a single drive rod plus a headlight. The pilot and trailing trucks were always die-cast. The tender was always a 2020W whistling tender.
2020 with Smoke Element - The 2020 with smoke element was introduced in 1947 and is the more common version. This locomotive is basically the same as the earlier version but includes the updated smoke element and E-unit control protruding through the top of the boiler. Standard features of this turbine include: three position E-unit, smoke element and a single drive rod plus a headlight. The pilot and trailing trucks were always die-cast. It always came with a whistling tender, numbered either 2020W or 6020W.
The 1947 to 1949 version of the 2020 included several types of drive wheels:
1947 - All drive wheels were nickel-rimmed.
1948 - The first and fourth drive wheels were nickel-rimmed, while the inner two were blackened.
1949 - All drive wheels were blackened.
The 681 50,51&53
681 was basically a continuation of the 671, but with Magnetraction added to the locomotive. It's a durable engine and has pulling power comparable to some of the best locomotives produced by Lionel.
The 681 turbine locomotive had a brief two-year production run. Standard features include: black painted die-cast shell with white numbers, '6200' on the keystone, a single drive rod on each side, Magnetraction, three-position E-unit plus a headlight and smoke. The pilot and trailing trucks are always die-cast.
The locomotive was sold with either a 2671W or 2046W whistling tender. The 2671W is a much more desirable tender. The tender's 12 wheels and realistic Pennsylvania markings has made this a more impressive and realistic tender when compared to the 2046W. The 2046W tender is the standard streamlined tender with eight wheels and Lionel Lines as the roadname.
671- 46-59 & 52
The 671 (along with its 027 gauge counterpart the 2020) was the first turbine introduced by Lionel. Originally introduced in 1946, it remained in the line until 1949. It also made a brief appearance in 1952, but was finally discontinued after a single year of production.none of the 671 turbines have Magnetraction,
671 with Smoke Bulb - This version which was produced only in 1946, uses a special light bulb to heat up the smoke pellets and to convert them to smoke. The easiest way to recognize this version is by looking into the smokestack. If you see a light bulb in the smokestack, it's the Smoke Bulb version. Standard features of this turbine include: three position E-unit (without a lever protruding from the top of the shell), smoke bulb, plain drive wheels and a single drive rod plus a headlight. The pilot and trailing trucks were always die-cast. The tender was always a whistling tender, numbered 671W.
671R with Electronic Control - Produced from 1946 - 1949, this is a special locomotive included with the infamous Electronic Control Set. It has a unique feature in that the operator was able to operate or uncouple any of the trains in the Electronic Control Set anywhere on the track, at any point in time! Pretty impressive for the late 1940s! Standard features of this turbine include: Electronic Control unit, three position E-unit (with a lever protruding from the top of the shell), smoke element, plain drive wheels and a single drive rod plus a headlight. The pilot and trailing trucks were always die-cast. It came with a whistling tender, numbered either 4424W or 4671W.
671 with Smoke Element - The 671 with smoke element was introduced in 1947 and is the most common version. This locomotive is basically the same as the Electronic Control version, but without the Electronic Control feature. Standard features of this turbine include: three position E-unit, smoke element, plain drive wheels and a single drive rod plus a headlight. The pilot and trailing trucks were always die-cast. It always came with a whistling tender, numbered 671W.
671RR - (essentially a 681 turbine without Magnetraction). Due to material shortages caused by the Korean War, the 681 Magnetraction version from 1951 was eliminated from all locomotives in 1952. For this reason, Lionel re-ran the 671 and labelled it 671 RR (for re-run). Actual 671 RR locomotives were designated on the cab as either 671 RR or simply 671. Standard features of the 671 RR include: three position E-unit, smoke element, plain drive wheels and a single drive rod plus a headlight. The pilot and trailing trucks were always die-cast metal. The tender was the 2046W-50 Pennsylvania whistling tender
The 2020 46-59
This turbine locomotive remained in the Lionel family through four production years. However, during its run there were two different versions of that engine. The following is a summary of each:
2020 with Smoke Bulb - This version which was produced only in 1946, uses a special light bulb to heat up the smoke pellets and to convert them to smoke. The easiest way to recognize this version is by looking into the smokestack. If you see a light bulb in the smokestack, it's the Smoke Bulb version. Standard features of this turbine include: three-position E-unit (without a lever protruding from the top of the shell), smoke bulb, nickel-rimmed drive wheels and a single drive rod plus a headlight. The pilot and trailing trucks were always die-cast. The tender was always a 2020W whistling tender.
2020 with Smoke Element - The 2020 with smoke element was introduced in 1947 and is the more common version. This locomotive is basically the same as the earlier version but includes the updated smoke element and E-unit control protruding through the top of the boiler. Standard features of this turbine include: three position E-unit, smoke element and a single drive rod plus a headlight. The pilot and trailing trucks were always die-cast. It always came with a whistling tender, numbered either 2020W or 6020W.
The 1947 to 1949 version of the 2020 included several types of drive wheels:
1947 - All drive wheels were nickel-rimmed.
1948 - The first and fourth drive wheels were nickel-rimmed, while the inner two were blackened.
1949 - All drive wheels were blackened.
The 681 50,51&53
681 was basically a continuation of the 671, but with Magnetraction added to the locomotive. It's a durable engine and has pulling power comparable to some of the best locomotives produced by Lionel.
The 681 turbine locomotive had a brief two-year production run. Standard features include: black painted die-cast shell with white numbers, '6200' on the keystone, a single drive rod on each side, Magnetraction, three-position E-unit plus a headlight and smoke. The pilot and trailing trucks are always die-cast.
The locomotive was sold with either a 2671W or 2046W whistling tender. The 2671W is a much more desirable tender. The tender's 12 wheels and realistic Pennsylvania markings has made this a more impressive and realistic tender when compared to the 2046W. The 2046W tender is the standard streamlined tender with eight wheels and Lionel Lines as the roadname.
Thanks for the links and thank you Andrew for your thorough reply.
Bill
Here is a site for the 682: http://www.postwarlionel.com/cgi-bin/postwar?ITEM=682
The 1946 version of the 671 & 2020 were virtually the same with the exception of the number. As stated in previous response, these both used the smoke bulb type smoke unit. The 1947 version had nickel rims, which were replaced in the subsequent issues up to 1949. The 681 had a different frame, with a magnet set into a slot that was cast into the newer frame, which provided magnatraction for this loco. The 671R was electronic control, with a plug/jack connection for direction control. The 1946 versions also had the same type of brush plate with the plug/jack connection for direction. The 1946 version of the 671/2020 do not have a slot on top for an E-unit. The later castings put the slot into the casting for a conventional E-unit. The 671RR used the same frame from the 681, but the magnet was removed, so NO magnatraction. The 682 was an upgraded 681 with extra linkage added, and the casting was again modified. ALL bodies/shells of the complete run of turbines used a 671-3 mold, but through the years the engineers modified the castings for the different versions i.e. E unit slot; magnatraction slot; added Boss for 681 linkage. No matter what version, 1946 to the end of the run, the shells were all 671-3 shells.
quote:Standard features of this turbine include: Electronic Control unit, three position E-unit (with a lever protruding from the top of the shell), smoke element, plain drive wheels and a single drive rod plus a headlight.
There is a smoke bulb version of the 671R electronic set locomotive too. I have yet to see one with an original electronic control decal. I have seen a number of them, and even owned a few. None had any signs of decals on the loco. I guess it was the tender that made it an electronic control turbine.
The 1947-1949 electronic control turbine has a brushplate with jacks for making the connection to the receiver in the tender. At a causal glance, it looks just like the brushplate that was used for the 1946 turbines and berkshires. But it is not the same. The terminals are shorter to fit inside the cab. The part number was 671RM-2
No one has mentioned the double worm drive and horizontal motor on the early 671 and 2020. The 1946 Berkshires also used this power arrangement.
Here's the chassis of a 671R with smoke bulb, horizontal e-unit and the double worm drive. My engine did not have the decal, it had it on the tender. Great running engine.
franktrain
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Those 1946 engines with smoke bulbs and double worm drives: the 726, 2020 and 671, are my favorites.
Lionel redesigned the drive for 1947, and redesigned the smoke unit to use a heater, and a different smoke material. They offered a conversion kit for the smoke. It included various parts such as a new boiler front, headlight bulb assembly, and the new smoke unit. The kits were available right up through 1969, and are collectable all by themselves. So its possible to find the 1946 engines with heater type smoke units. I have had a lot of these engines pass through my hands, very few were converted.
Might as well mention that there were two major designs of the heater type smoke units. The early one had a flat mica plate as a form for the heater windings, and the smoke unit cover fit over the smoke pot. This design proved to be unsatisfactory. The element burnt out too quickly. On the second design, the mica form had a ceramic forn added, and the smoke unit cover fit inside the smoke pot. The smoke pot was changed too. IMHO, the ceramic form allowed Lionel to use a longer piece of heavier gauge wire for the heater, which was more robust. The second design was used right up into the 1960's.
Thanks for all the info. I love the Turbines !! Have two-an early 671 bulb with what looks like the electronic brush plate and a 681. Traded off a 671RR for a really nice NW2but would like to get a 682 someday. I liked the photo of the 671 innards, have never had the shell off mine.
Jim the shell on the 681 is simple to take off grab front assembly at the bottom where the headlight is and slowly pull straight out and remove the healight from the back of cover there are 2 screws on back and 1 screw in the front on underside of shell once removed the shell comes right off.
The postwar turbines were very nice , the 1 year only "1946" versions with their double worm drive are also nice and fun to run especially in dark room as that smoke bulb illuminates the smoke coming out the stack which is not often talked about.
Martin
Thanks for the advice. The old 681 runs pretty good right now so I don't want to mess with it.
Originally Posted by C W Burfle:
Those 1946 engines with smoke bulbs and double worm drives: the 726, 2020 and 671, are my favorites.
Lionel redesigned the drive for 1947, and redesigned the smoke unit to use a heater, and a different smoke material. They offered a conversion kit for the smoke. It included various parts such as a new boiler front, headlight bulb assembly, and the new smoke unit. The kits were available right up through 1969, and are collectable all by themselves. So its possible to find the 1946 engines with heater type smoke units. I have had a lot of these engines pass through my hands, very few were converted.
Might as well mention that there were two major designs of the heater type smoke units. The early one had a flat mica plate as a form for the heater windings, and the smoke unit cover fit over the smoke pot. This design proved to be unsatisfactory. The element burnt out too quickly. On the second design, the mica form had a ceramic forn added, and the smoke unit cover fit inside the smoke pot. The smoke pot was changed too. IMHO, the ceramic form allowed Lionel to use a longer piece of heavier gauge wire for the heater, which was more robust. The second design was used right up into the 1960's.
C.W.:
I’ve been curious for a long time about how many different versions of the 671R (electronic set version) were actually made. Cataloged from 1946 through 1949, some “unofficial” references say that Lionel changed it every year to match the changes in the regular production turbines but I can not verify this in any Lionel publication. It seems like it would have been hard for Lionel to justify changing it each and every one of those last 3 years because its sales were so disappointing. I’m sure that by the end of 1948 they and their dealers had plenty of left over electronic sets. We do know that the 681R (aka 4681) cataloged in 1950 was never made.
As the link in your earlier post above shows, the service manual states that a 1946 version exists but does not specifically mention any other versions by year. But it does show the revised brushplate which was needed for the slanted single-worm drive motor versions from 1947 through 49. So there are definitely multiple versions of the 671R.
The 1946 version had a smoke bulb so it makes sense that there would have been a change in 1947 because of the change in the regular production 671 and 2020 from the smoke bulb which required unsafe pellets to a heating element. My only 671R has the 1948 wheel type with nickel rims on just the first and fourth drivers plus my instruction sheet is dated 1948.
Does anyone have a 1947 or 1949 version of the 671R?
Bill
Great thread! I, too, have always had a soft spot for the turbines. Relatively easy to work on, too.
WftTrains, In answer to sets that were produced for the 671R, there were only two sets marketed; Set 4109W for 1946-47, with 4424W tender; Set 4110W for 1948-49, with 4671W tender. The 1946 version 671R had horizontal motor, smoke bulb, nickel rims, and NO E-unit slot in the casting. The 1947-49 version had heater smoke unit, 671RM-5 (slanted motor), and an E-unit slot cast into the shell. The brush plates were the plug/socket arrangement, and control was thru the Tenders, for direction. I stated in an earlier post of this thread about the body/shell casting, that each and every one were 671-3 molds, and were modified over the years for whatever application they wanted for a specific run, i.e. 671/681/682/2020. The number 671-3 is in all of these versions. The 682 had an extra "boss" cast into the body, to accommodate the added linkage, and it was attached by a hex head STUD, not a screw. Some owners have mistaken the hex head on the linkage as a screw, and snapped it off, to remove the linkage. It is a stud, that has to be pried out of the casting.
Below is a comparison of the 681 shell upper photo, and a 682 shell with the "boss" casted onto the body for the added linkage. This comparison was in a previous post, talking about "Fake 682's made from a 681 body....which you can see can't be done without some serious work.
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