Lionel PRR GLa hoppers

That's music to our ears, Norm.  Can't wait to see the results!!! 

David

Norm I curious why you still use the 805's and not the new 700 series?

Looks like I'm going to have to get a few of those new PRR hoppers. That "circle Keystone" logo looks pretty nice.

However, it is sort of hard to tell from the photos if the trucks are the plain bearing type of Bettendorf freight trucks, i.e. NOT roller bearing.

LOS, I still have a few on hand and I like how they grab the traditional knuckle couplers (I am still running quite a bit of them at this point). I'm under the impression that the 700s won't grab onto regular 3R couplers.

Here are some truck shots. The journal box could have been rendered a little better I think, and it would have been nice to be able to diassemble these with a screwdriver.

Yes, those sure do NOT seem to be ver clear die cast representatives of the famous Bettendorf plain bearing freight car trucks. Maybe, I'll just install Weaver trucks, either 2-rail scale or hi-rail types.

Well I would hope that they don't look like Bettendorf plain bearing freight trucks!  Lionel went to the trouble to tool for the correct PRR 2D-F8 50-ton trucks.  These did have bearing caps that differed from Bettendorf.  Here are some Yoder brass 2D-F8 trucks:

http://www.richyodermodels.com/rym-o-scale-trucks.htm

and here is Lionel's page describing the trucks for the GLa's:

https://lionelllc.wordpress.co...ylvania-gla-hoppers/

As a big-time Pennsy fan (yes, the slobbering kind) I am really glad that Lionel went all the way with PRR-specific details rather than slapping some generic Bettendorf style truck on these cars.

Thanks a bunch for that clarification!  Naturally, I would never have known that, thus I'll may just try putting scale wheel sets in them, or leave them as is. All they really need are Kadee couplers.

Thanks for pointing that out Bob!

I noticed that the Kadee shim/adapter has what appears to be a reciever hole for an air hose but I didn't find any in my boxes. Anyone else get these yet and did you get a set of hoses? Here's an image from the link Bob put up:

You can see the hole in my first photo above.

Still pretty happy with these cars overall and glad Lionel made them, and made them 3RSable with not too much effort..

Mine get here tomorrow and I'll look for any air hoses.  I also have borrowed a 2-rail Rich Yoder brass GLa and will do some side by side photos vs. the Lionel.

The biggest issue I've notice is the height of the car body.  The sides of a PRR GLa stand 10 scale ft off the rail head vs. 10' 8" on a USRA twin hoppers (PRR class GLd).  In the photos on this thread note that the Lionel GLa  stands the same height as the Atlas USRA twin.  The other issue is that on the prototype GLa the coupler draft gear passes through the end sill in a "notch" while on the Lionel GLa the end sill is not notched and the Kadee  pocket must be shimmed down below the end sill for correct coupler height - indicating that the car's end sill is too tall above the rail head. I suspect Lionel had to compromise on height to provide added clearance between the tinplate wheel flanges and the underside of the slope sheets. 

 I was going to buy a string of Lionel GLa's and convert them to 2 rail but based on the car body height issues I'm going to take a pass as I don't think the cars would look right when mixed in with my PSC, Yoder, and Parri GLa's.  That said most folks will probably be pleased to have a nice looking Pennsy twin hopper to go along with their AtlasO H21 quads.

Ed Rappe

Not sure that the height issue might correctable putting decent 2-rail trucks with proper height bolsters in them.  I'd have to see the underside and car bolster to get some idea whether that might be workable.

Hacking the ends to put the coupler draft gear into the end frame properly might be a bigger issue.

Still have to see one personally to get a real perspective on these before spending anything.

"That said most folks will probably be pleased to have a nice looking Pennsy twin hopper to go along with their Atlas O H21 quads."

that's my thought Ed. not owning any of the aforementioned brass versions, having the very nearly accurate Lionel GLa to go along with my modified Atlas H21a hoppers and very modified Weaver H35 hoppers will give me a nice compliment of types and timeframe.

like Marty, I want to SEE one before buying.

For anyone curious about the frame/truck setup, here's a workbench shot:

There is a flat washer that sits above each truck.

Interesting. So,,,,,if that flat washer is left off, obviously the car will ride lower however, will the Hi-Rail flanges then contact the underside of the frame?

Yes, and then you have to re-shim the couplers.

Thanks. That figures. Maybe I can change out the wheel sets to 2-Rail wheels, lower the car, then re-shim the Kadee as necessary. 

Thanks.  Going to a 2-rail truck with a bolster in the correct position will drop this car a good bit then. 

Still have to mill out the frame to get the coupler draft gear where it belongs.  That might not be impossible given the apparent thickness of the center of the frame.

Norm - If you have the time I'd appreciate your posting a shot of the end sill (I'd like to know if it is close to a scale cross section - especially its height).  Is the end sill a separate metal or plastic piece - or part of the body?  With scale 2 rail wheel sets wheels one could lower the car, but could the end sill be notched and frame modified to receive a Kadee pocket so that both the car and coupler height are close to prototype.   Over the years there has been much discussion on the 3RS forum about mounting Kadees to various makes of cars so that the coupler height comes out right.  Often this entails shimming the coupler pocket down relative to the body or using truck mount washers.  For a car to look close to the prototype both coupler and car body height should be considered (admittedly I overlook the 5' gauge as I'm too old and have too much equipment to embrace P48).  Thanks to prototype drawings preserved by the PRRT&HS we have access to a wealth of prototype data on virtually all major classes of PRR locomotives and cars including the GLa.  This thread gives us the opportunity to discuss what it would take to get both the coupler and car height right on the Lionel GLa.

Ed Rappe

An excellent thought and concept.

not being well versed in Lionel stock numbers, item # 6-81686 and 6-82611 appear to be the same 3-pack CK (circle keystone) hoppers. was there a stock number change along the way?

There are different car numbers in these two sets.

Set 6-81686 (just released) has car numbers:

156155, 156811, 156885

Set 6-81686 (scheduled to be released in December) has car numbers:

155773, 161295, 873899

Ed, I am on the road this week so hopefully someone else can jump in here...

Keystoned Ed wrote:

>>Thanks to prototype drawings preserved by the PRRT&HS we have access to a wealth of prototype data on virtually all major classes of PRR locomotives and cars including the GLa.<<

Proper credit should actually go to the Penn Central and its survivors and the PA State Archives for preserving the PRR mechanical engineering drawings - not the PRR T&HS.  While the PRR T&HS has a collection of prints, if it had not been for the PC putting the original collection on loan to the PA State Archives they likely would have been lost.

Robert

Ed, this car with the stock 3RS setup is riding at 10'6" to the top of the car out of the box. The carbody sides measure 7'3". The ride height seems to be about 9" too high to the bottom of carbody sides in 3RS mode.

For 3RS purposes, running with standard .100" flanges, I am not sure how much of a lower ride height is worth trying to achieve. The flanges have maybe 1/16-3/32" clearance to the L channel pieces on the hopper slides(?).

For my purposes, these are going to get weathered and run as is. I am also going to try improving the loads.

Thanks for the measurements Norm.  I'd like to purchase one GLa and see what I can do to bring it down to scale height.  Does anyone know of a dealer that is breaking down the three car sets and selling them individually?

Ed Rappe

PS Norm - I really look forward seeing more of your railroad -

I'm seeing some shadow keystones on eBay, that's it so far Ed.

You can also see some of the other roads for sale too and compare the end sills. I meant to mention that the sills are separate pieces.

Does anyone know of a dealer that is breaking down the three car sets and selling them individually?

 

Ed Rappe

I am waiting for the PRR M1a set to be broken up. 

Well I got a great Deal From Marios Trains re the gLa's I purchased. The Berwind as well as the PRR Ball Herald Three packs of this car. Other than being a bit on the light side [ as compared to K-line USRA and Atlas O hoppers] the details are pretty impressive. I will post comparison photos later on next week.

After all the discussion here I decided to purchase a 3 pack. I must say I am quite pleased with this car. Since I don't own any of the better brass versions, these hoppers will fit nicely with Atlas H21 hoppers.

now on to the truck replacement and possible end sill mods.

Jack, I ordered through TrainWorld, my first purchase from them. The price was $162 + shipping.

My only critique of these cars is the pad printing was done a bit heavy, compared to the Atlas car.

The cars appear to have the correct tapered side stakes for a GLa... one more thing to make them stand out nice from standard USRA two pocket hoppers.