Lionel PW, MPC and LTI "Trainmaster"

The postwar Jersey Central is liable to be very pricey because it rare......It was cataloged in only one set in 1956 and only available for separate sale that year. The Lackawanna was available 54-56 in multiple sets and separate sale. It is likely to be more reasonable in price. I have not priced them in years and would follow them on the auction sites for a while.........and then, York is coming up if that's an option.

 

Peter

Thanks Peter.

 That is one of the reasons I am trying to find good advice. I am planning on York already!

 

Henry J

Henry

 

   The one in the pic I upgrade to tmcc for a customer and I have the same one I purchased in 1982. These are excellent runners.

 

Bill

I have a PW Lackawanna, was told that if it doesn't have a crack below the screw that it has to be a reproduction.  But you mentioned that above. Very nice units they are.

I see the lackawanna's on eBay for under 200 everyonce and awhile

I really like my MTH ps1 Jersey Central its a smooth

runner and was reasonably priced.

 franktrain

Boxcar Bill,

 So your Trainmaster is an MPC?

 

 Also, I missed the 1 in my number, 6-18309.

 

 The one motor motor was completely stuck. The lubricant on the "brushplate" side was literally dried hard. I had a difficult time removing it. Once it was off the armature turned very freely. Cleaned off all the dried lubricant, lightly relubed it and the motor was smooth as silk. The white grease in the gear box was tacky and stringy coming out. I noted that the drive gear on the axle looked like plastic/nylon. Is there metal replacement? And is it worth the procedure to change it? One last question Bill, are both head lights supposed to be on at the same time?

 

That C&NW really looks nice too!

 

Thanks

Henry J

franktrain,

 That is "very sharp"!

 

Henry J

I have a couple of MPC FMs & a postwar DL&W

 

All are really good runners.  the MPC is built pretty close to the PW model except for the horn.   The MPC ones will go for a better price.  MPC made a CNJ model in 1986.  The scheme is the green/gold & is prototypical, where teh PW scheme is not.    That is one of the FMS I have & it runs great

I have a two MPC era Trainmaster's, The Southern Railway's FM and the Jersey Central in the prototypical green and gold livery.  They are both great runners and pullers but there are a couple of things you should be aware of before you take the plunge for an MPC era FM.  First, the worm wheel which is plastic or nylon can and will crack over time.  Both of mine did and had to be replaced with bronze worm wheels.  I really don't know which worm wheel is superior but I have never had a bronze wheel or gear crack on me.  Strip, yes but crack, no.  Also, the electronic horn on the MPC locos were insulated from the metal frame with a very thin and inexpensive layer of foam like material.  This deteriorates over time and when it does the electronic board will short out when it comes into contact with the metal frame and that will be the last you hear of your horn because those boards are next to impossible to find.  This happened to my Jersey Central FM so now I run and early railsounds boxcar behind it.  Works for me.   Nevertheless, they both run well and look great.    

Christopher2035 and OKHIKER,

 Thanks for the update. That gives me a better feeling about the MPC Units. Most likely I would look for CNJ Unit. I like the prototypical scheme. As for a PW unit, I really like the CNJ and early DL&W. I do have a question about the early DL&W, was the maroon roof prototypical or not? I am in no hurry to find these two PW pieces, they are recent additions to my wish list.

 OKHIKER, are the metal wheels a Lionel item? Did you change these out yourself? I was looking on the website parts and to this point had not located a breakdown indicating one. (I am starting to figure out how to search better - PN/discription).

 

Thanks

Henry J

I believe the prototype DL&W units came both ways

Chistopher2035,

 Thanks! I will do some research on that when I get some time.  I understand the gray tops are more common than the maroon tops on the PW era. Either will make me happy when that time comes.

 On a side note, I just looked at the youtube video of your PW Celebration series. Very well done!

 

Henry J

The D units in real life had both types or roofs.

 

Lionel conv. TM's had lights on both ends

I read from quite a few books that the majority of MPC's FM's had body screw cracking like most of the postwar models. The 8678 Jersey Central of 1986 came with reinforcement screws, and suceeding FM's had this improvement. I believe this is another reason why LTI's FM's hold a slightly better premium.

 

Of the postwar FM's, the only one I believe did not have screw cracking easily was the painted blue version of the 2322 Virginian in 1966.

 

Don Shaw of the Train Station in Mountain Lakes, New Jersey said that the Lackawanna railroad first had their FM's rooves painted gray, but because the exhaust sut was tough to clean off the light gray colored roof, they painted the rooves a deep maroon to hide the sut.

After realizing early on in my involvement in the hobby that I wasn't going to find a CNJ FM in the condition I wanted for a price I was willing to pay I ended up buying a Williams version and have not regretted my purchase at all. I prefer conventional operation engines so I passed on the newer Lionel and MTH models. I later picked up the green/yellow stripe version as well. They are both among the favorite engines I own.

If you need to, you could place a Lionel shell onto a Williams frame/drive train.

Henry

 

   When you asked about both lights being on, one is a mars light or strobe. When I upgrade I install a led for the headlight and one for the flashing strobe.

 

Bill

I have 3 MPCs and they run just like a PW, check for a horn if that's important to you as the earliest ones do not have one.

Guys:

 

Regarding the actual "roof" color of the DL&W Train Masters, it was black.

 

Bob

 

 

 

 

The guy wanted a POSTWAR unit.

The 2321 Lackawanna postwar Train Master comes in two variations. The rarer of these has a maroon roof while you should be able to get a nice gray roof one for $350 0r so with lesser grade ones for under $250. add $100 for a maroon roof. As for the Jersey Central, those are quite rare and they are faked. I wouldn't even bother.

Thanks for the props on the videos

I've got the MPC Virginian FM from 1979/80. I bought it new when it came out (and paid through the nose when I did), and have almost literally run the wheels off it! Ive run it to where now there are grooves forming in the wheels themselves. Is what got me back into trains in 1980. I've never replaced the gears in it or had trouble with them. Are you sure that the gear is nylon in the MPC FM's? I thought that was an MPC GP and switcher problem, but not anything with the die cast trucks like F3's and EP5's, etc. I was running it on tubular track for decades and have worn the rollers to the point that they looked like I used Super O, but never had a gear issue. Maybe I just got a lucky one, but that thing is indestructible.

A TMCC will default to Conv. if it does not "hear" the TMCC signal.  So you can run a L/TMCC in Conv., but you will not get all the benefits the engine has.  Same with MTH PS2/3.  It can run Conv., but you don't get all the benefits put into the engine.

       


No question about.  Both worm wheels were either plastic/ nylon and both cracked right in two.  Also, I think I mentioned they were replaced with bronze worm wheels but I was mistaken, they were replaced by brass worm wheels.

Thanks for the update OKHIKER.

If you mean at both ends, that's the way they come.  It is a fairly easy matter to rewire the headlights to have the one in the direction of travel to burn bright while the back one is very dim.  An advantage of Pullmor motors.

 

Re the C&NW: I've got 3 of them.

I have the SP Black Widow version from the same year as yours and it has all metal gears. I remember that at the time plastic gears got a real bad reputation when they were used in the first GG-1 remake. Collectors were wise to that mistake. The first thing I did was look at the worm gear. I guess the customers forgot about it by the time the later ones came out.

 

Neil

 

quote:

2) An MPC 8687 CNJ (green w/yello stripes) is listed at $225.00 starting bid, $250.00 Buy it now, + $22.00 s&h. (listed as NIB/mint, never run, no cracks. removed from box for pictures, connected to transformer to test - motors ran, horn works, intruction sheet, {to me the box and liner look perfect}).

 

If you shop around and take your time, a mint 8687 FM can be had for about $150.

It is?  I wonder if someone could post a link to information on how to do that.  I wouldn't mind doing that myself.

Move the light bulb wire from the E-unit terminal to the brush terminal that gives the correct intensity for direction of travel. The bulbs will not be on in neutral. 

David,

 This is why I joined the Forum! A lot of good advice here. I understand what you are saying about the PW items. Heck, the pricing seems to be falling on most pre and post war stuff. Regardless of the manufacture.

 

 What my intentions are:

1) find a really nice PW CNJ or Lackawanna - and it will be run and displayed

2) find a new to mint MPC CNJ - it will be run and displayed

3) look into a command operated Trainmaster from either Lionel or MTH - and again, it will be run and displayed.

 Basically, one from each era that I really like. I will be doing the same thing with the ALCO FA's and a few steam engines.

 

 At some point I will start a similar thread relating to the FA's. But, I am priming myself for the Trainmaster. (And, I may add something from Williams for good measure  .

 

Henry J 

Just to add some weight to your shelf - K-Line also made a Trainmaster in various road names.

John23,

 I was not aware of that. Scale, semi-scale or traditional? Conventional or command?

 

Henry J

It's the same size as the Lionel engines, I believe it has more detail.  It was offered in both conventional and TMCC versions.