Lionel PWC TMCC Southern ABA Questions

I can't talk about the operation of the engine. As to the sound I believe it has been pretty common practice to have sound in the dummmy unit. It was recomended by authors of books and various magazine articles to have the sound equiped unit as the leader. It was said to improve the tracking and the traction.

 

Bill

With respect to the PWC F units (and every other "traditional" F-3 set as well), the powered A units never have the sound systems in them. The reason is most likely because with the motors and attendant electronics, it would be a squeeze to fit a sound system, speaker, and the required additional electronics into the powered unit. So the sound system is always in another unit, either a B or in the dummy A. 

 

The majority of traditional F-3 sets have the sound system in the B unit, and that is always true with PWC sets that came as an A-B set in those cases where the Postwar set came that way. My Rio Grande PWC set is that way. That was sold in the Postwar years only as an A-B, and a dummy A was never made.

 

With the PWC set, Lionel also made a separate sale dummy A, and that engine has directional lighting and an electrocoupler, which is command-equipped, but no sound system. To answer some of your questions, you should just open up the engines and look inside to see what's there. It's very easy to open traditional F units - just one screw to remove.

 

In some PWC sets that were originally marketed in the Postwar years as A-A sets, like the Southern, the sound system is in the dummy A. With my KCS set (which is a commemorative set because it was considered for production during Postwar but never made), the sound system is in the dummy A. It gets confusing, though, because a couple F-3 sets came as A-B-A (like the Southern), even if that was not the way the Postwar sets were, and the sound system is in the dummy A. Maybe that's to accommodate those who want to run those sets as an A-A like in Postwar, without the B, but who knows?

 

In any case, if you want the sound in the front unit, just put the dummy A with the sound system as the lead engine, and have the powered unit behind it running "backwards." Lots of people do that; some claim that in some cases there is more pulling power with that setup.

 

As to your operational issues, there's clearly something wrong, because obviously the engine shouldn't be running as you describe. I'll let others address that.

Thanks guys, one thing I will try is to apply the brake fully, then power up to 50% on the Legacy remote thumb wheel.

Then release the brake very very slowly,that should help with fast take offs.

However, it does not address the way it behaves like a conventional engine, when it slows down on curves etc.

I guess the PWCs dont have Odyssey to blame?

AC motors, or DC motors without cruise control will slow down and speed up on curves and grades, nature of the beast.  If you want cruise control, you need a DC can motor and the proper electronics.

 

I was afraid of that...I guess I am learning the hard way.

However, there are some forum members who posted videos of pretty darn good performance even at slow speeds for a Pullmor motor.

 

It takes the Legacy remote to be set to almost 95% power to get this thing moving.

I tried L, M, and Heavy momentum, and setting the brake to 100%, then setting the throttle to 95% and letting off the brake slowly does not help.

 

I also noticed that my number boards are flashing on the lead and trailing units, and that the headlight on the trailing unit no longer works.

I am under the impression that using a TPC instead of an MTH Z-1000 transformer with the Legacy 990 is a better choice and may help.

 

This has been the worst 2 months of new trains for me, since 2000 when I got back to model railroading.

 

New out of the box:

1) Lionel SP Tank Train TMCC SD40-2T had a screw wedged in the gears from the factory

2) MTH LIRR MU PS3 had gears locked on one truck from the factory

3) New replacement of (2) had only one truck/motor engaged and a clipped plastic wire tie, wedged in the gears from the factory.

4) Lionel Southern ABA TMCC has number boards flashing, no headlight on trailing A Unit, and the worst performance of any train I have owned to date.

 

 

 

 

Depending on the model, you can get decent low speed performance out of the Pullmor motor, but it will still have the speed variations on curves and grades without constant throttle adjustments.

 

If it's taking you to almost full throttle to get it moving, I'd be doing a tune-up on the motor and a full lube of the gearboxes and oiling axles.  Of course, I'm assuming your track voltage is near 18V and you don't have significant voltage drops under load, that will make the AC motored units really bog down.

 

 ( With all due respect to the folks that love their old fashioned operating charcteristics)From a "prototypical operation standpoint" Pullmor Motors are garbage.

 

They will never even come close to "can motored locomotives".

 

Pullmor motors draw a ton of voltage, run hot, and are designed for postwar style racing around the layout. Not switching or low speed operation.

 

IMO Lionel offers "Pullmor powered" locos with TMCC for the folks I mentioned above. Those who grew up with that type of running, and can now have it with remote control. Thats why they're offered in the PWC sets, because thats how the originals ran.

 

If Pullmors were still the standard in O, I guarantee I'd still be in H.O. I avoid Pullmor power like the plague.

 

Someone will chime in saying " oh Pullmor motors will run  just as slow as a can motor." No way, ain't true, not gonna happen. It simply is not designed to do so.

Don't hold back Rick, say what you really mean!

 

Thanks guys, well....at this point it seems it was a really bad mistake on my part to buy the 2 PWC sets, and frankly TMCC to a lesser degree.

For now on its Legacy and DCS or bust!

I say MTH DCS too, but it seems MTH has issues with PS3 transit and certain LIRR locos...and its not just me.

So, I am holding off on all MTH LIRR purchases except RS3s

Hopefully they will get it resolved, as frankly I like DCS even better than Legacy.

Well, if you're really liking these sets, you could upgrade them to DC motors and cruise control.  Frank Timko does DC motor replacements, and the ERR Cruise Commander M would complete the picture.  The rest of the electronics would be usable as is.  Cost is probably in the $200 range for parts if you can do the installation.

 

Well for what it is worth, I found a couple of issues caused by me:

 

1) With my bad eyesight, one of the two A units was still set to program (cleared and reprogrammed engines, both set to run now).

2) On two places on the layout where there are curves, the front truck of the lead engine was de-railing. One of those curves are fixed now and does not derail, but the other had no visible defect. It is a O-31 curve, but this is a Lionel PWC...cant imagine that derailing at slow speed on a O-31, is not that what they were designed for?

3) Stall and Speed Limit were not set

4) Cannot seem to clear out and re-set the stall and speed limit values and the number boards are still flashing (noticed they started flashing after I pressed the set button in program mode during programming of the engines).

5) Might have pressed set twice in programming mode and thus caused (4).

 

As a result, the only outstanding issues now are the flashing number boards and the stall/speed limit settings.

Press set again and the lights will stop flashing and the stall speed will be set.  You have to press it twice in the process, once to enter the stall setting function, the second time to actually set the stall speed.

 

Nothing changed, still blinking.

I gave up on it, as the performance of those Pullmor motors under TMCC with a Legacy 990 was so horrid for me, I would rather just run can motor Williams trains under conventional control with the Legacy System.

Can that be done?

I know you can do that with Lionel conventional but what about Williams?

If the lights are blinking in a regular pattern all the time, they may be wired to the smoke output and you have them set as a strobe.

 

Try reprogramming the engine.

 

• Track Power Off
• Turn RUN/PGM switch to PGM
• Track Power On
• ENG, (eng #), SET
• ALT1, 6
• Track Power Off
• Turn RUN/PGM switch to RUN
• Track Power On

 

See if that fixes the blinking number boards.

Thanks John, I will give it a whirl.

I have the Wabash PWC set and it is a beauty.  Looks great, sounds great and runs as smooth as silk with double pullmor power.
I think you set the powered A unit and the B unit with sound as the same engine number, then the add on A unit as another engine number, then build a train in usual fashion.  Should run like champ.  It sounds like one of the motors is binding on something.  I would open it up and have a look.

Are you running conventional or with a TMCC or Legacy 990 command and control set?

I am going to try another PWC engine I have, and also try an engine "reset".

The number boards wont stop flashing and pressing set twice has no effect.

Are the number boards flashing randomly or at a constant rate?

 

Constant on the Southern.

Also, I did what you told me to do on my TXSpecial, and it worked.

Thus, for whatever reason the Southern won't abide to the command.

Both PWCs,

Odd, I can't imagine any other reason for them to be flashing.

 

There are only two lights in the cabs of these units. One for the headlight, and one for the cab light. There aren't any individual bulbs in the number boards, but rather they pick-up ambient light from one of the other bulbs.

 

Which light is blinking? The headlight or the cab light?

 

TRW

It would be the cab light then.

Then John's post above is correct. The cab light is wired to the board output that can be programmed as a cab light, strobe light or smoke unit. For some reason, yours thinks it's a strobe light, but the following reset procedure will fix it:

 

 

Hopefully this helps.

TRW

Thx I will try it tonight and let you know

 

Pullmors won't go ultra-slow like DC motored engines with cruise, but my Pullmor-motored engines also run well, once the motors are broken in just a bit. I can actually get them to go quite slowly. As is pretty well known, they run better with Legacy than they do with the older TMCC/Cab1 setup.

Thanks Everyone!

I was able to fix my Lionel PWC TMCC Southern A unit, and both the PWC Texas SP and Southern B Units.

However, the PWC TX SP A Unit is totally unresponsive despite having power and lights.

Here is what I noticed:

On STEP 6: Press the “AUX 1” key, then press "6".....

On all the units that work now, when I pressed Aux 1, it actually changes the LCD from Keypad Numerals to symbols, i.e. the number 6 becomes one of the RPM buttons.

However, despite that the procedure works!

Unfortunately, on that TX SP unit..pressing Aux 1 does not bring up the LCD Keypad RPM button in place of the number 6, instead it remains a 6, and does not fix anything.

Any ideas for that TX SP unit?

The number boards are normal now, it just wont run.