Lionel's PW Celebration Series - the roster?

I have this set mainly because dad had the original PW versions.  I bugged Lionel for a long time to get these made.  I don't have any recent picture but I did just have them on the layout about a month ago or so.  I'm sure I posted something in WPF.  Lionel also made a Legacy Super Bass B unit for these as well.

The search worked for a change...LOL! From earlier this year...  I pulled them out after dad passed.  Seemed fitting.

As far as my knowledge goes, after Lionel scored big with the first Century Club, it inspired them to make more modern updated versions of postwar classics.

The first official model in the line was the 2355 Western Pacific F-3 AA’s in 1998, which wasn’t exactly a good year in terms of quality control for Lionel. Most consumers complained about the sticker on the nose where it should’ve been a decal. Lionel fixed most of the issues with their second F-3 the following year - the 2245 Texas Special, which for a long time along with its matching passenger cars held a considerable value. Lionel made an assortment of other items that year as well, including the boat loader, the GN rotary snowplow and the inspection vehicle, and just kept piling the reissues on as the years went on.

The Southern F-3’s were cataloged in 2000, and just like the Texas Special were sold with a matching set of aluminum cars separately.

Thanks guys, Marty - do you have any good shots of your Dad's originals? Guess I'll start looking for the Legacy B unit.

Have always admired the Texas Special (thanks Thomas - something new to hunt! )

I have some early MTH Premiere passenger cars that I decaled for the Southern that I will run with these. I made city names reflecting those surrounding New Orleans where we lived. Might consider painting the roofs back too.

Here are dad's originals...

Having them side by side, how do the colors compare?

@c.sam posted:

Having them side by side, how do the colors compare?

From memory the color is pretty close although I suspect dad's have faded a bit.

Years ago I bought two boxes of old Lionel from a young man who brought them into my hobby shop. I was fairly new to trains and was astounded at what he had - some O gauge track, an assortment of freight cars, most rusted away but a perfect crane car plus a 2332 GG1, 0-4-0 switcher, and a set of 2356s wrapped in newspaper. The family had been living in a rural place for several years and were cleaning out an old shed out back. These two boxes were underneath some other stuff on the bare earth ground! We had to throw some items out but were able to salvage the three engines successfully. My service man rebuilt the Southerns completely and we sent the cabs to Steve Latta in CA to restore. He had not done the 2356 yet so it took him about a year to get them back to us. Said they were the prototypes! I always felt that they were a little too deep in color and glossy but I was probably mistaken. My friend still has them and sent me some photos recently. These were restored back in the early 1990s. Paid $25 for both boxes. A lot of work went into a few nice items...

Who has the PWC Texas Specials?  Please tell us about them: A units, several B units etc....

Here’s mine Sam...I own 4 PWC F3s this one is by far the smoothest running one.

The attached pdf file should be a fairly complete listing of the Postwar Celebration Series.

Always wish they would have done a non- Century Club 671 and a #60 Trolley yellow with a red roof.

I loved the PWC celebration series and purchased a number of the items.  While I'm not that much into rolling stock, I did acquire several sets and engines.  There is a soft spot in my heart for F3s, particularly Texas Special.  I always wanted one as a kid and never got it.  Now I have "several".  IMHO - I prefer a conventional e-unit to all of the electronics.  I just want to put the train on the track, turn off the lights and watch it go.

I believe Ed’s list includes all Post War modern reproductions including many not actually in the Post War Celebration series with their unique boxes. No matter, really, if you want modern copies of our Post War trains. Most all of the 6464s fall into that category.

Pete

@Trainman52 posted:

IMHO - I prefer a conventional e-unit to all of the electronics.  I just want to put the train on the track, turn off the lights and watch it go.

Rich,

Just a gentle reminder.  You can "put the train on the track, turn off the lights and watch it go" with any Lionel F3, even those with TMCC or Legacy.  Just make sure, if one has command control, that you have no CAB-x command base connected to the track or powered up nearby when you turn up the throttle.

Conventional control works just fine.

Mike

Yes Mike, I know.  Believe it or not, I'm a "techie" and have all of the latest "toys".  That being said, I still love vinyl over digital.  I even have a player piano.  Everything old is new again.

@Trainman52 posted:

Yes Mike, I know.  Believe it or not, I'm a "techie" and have all of the latest "toys".  That being said, I still love vinyl over digital.  I even have a player piano.  Everything old is new again.

Fair enough.  So the issue you have is with electronics; or is it with microprocessors?

Unfortunately all of the PWC locomotives have electronics in them, and even perhaps microprocessors, whether they have TMCC (or Legacy) or not.  The conventional-only PWC loco's all have electronic e-units in them.

BTW -- I'm going to play with you a little more:

   Q: Which captures reality better, Vinyl or CD?

Mike

@Norton posted:

I believe Ed’s list includes all Post War modern reproductions including many not actually in the Post War Celebration series with their unique boxes. No matter, really, if you want modern copies of our Post War trains. Most all of the 6464s fall into that category.

Pete

No, should just be the PW Celebration Series in my list. It appears quite lengthy, but keep I mind for all the PW Celebration sets I have included the individual set items.

With some of the individual issue pieces, you can create additional sets that haven’t been re issued in the PWC series.

Terrance

Hi ed h - Just one thing which you may want to add to your overall Postwar Celebration Series list.  I have reviewed your list very carefully (particularly the product numbers down the left hand side) and don't see mentioned anywhere the Canadian Pacific Jarvis Manor StationSounds car (6-39197) which appeared on page 46 of Lionel's Classic Trains Volume 1 2002 catalog; the 9th and final passenger car that completed this PWC set.  I have the entire set and the Jarvis Manor announcements specifically refer to CP's iconic 'The Canadian' which has traversed Canada for many years.

Any chance you could post a scan of the page where Jarvis Manor is shown?

PRR1950 - Sorry, I'd like to, but I'm an old dinosaur that's no good with computers. That said, both the Canadian Pacific's Jarvis Manor and the Pennsylvania's Johns Hopkins StationSounds cars are shown on the bottom half of page 46 of the aforementioned 2002 Lionel catalog which I have.  Perhaps someone else on the Forum who also has that particular catalog (and is more computer literate than me) can scan and post it here.

Alternatively you can view the aluminum Jarvis Manor (6-39197) on Lionel's website simply by going to their Home page and typing in this product number in the blank space shown on the right hand side of the page.

I have that car. You can just google “Lionel 39197” to get the link to Lionel’s page and many images of the car.

Pete

Here are a couple quick pics of my 6-39197 Jarvis Manor station sounds car.

Pics taken with my iPad, didn't feel like getting out the camera for a couple pics.

@PH1975 posted:

Hi ed h - Just one thing which you may want to add to your overall Postwar Celebration Series list.  I have reviewed your list very carefully (particularly the product numbers down the left hand side) and don't see mentioned anywhere the Canadian Pacific Jarvis Manor StationSounds car (6-39197) which appeared on page 46 of Lionel's Classic Trains Volume 1 2002 catalog; the 9th and final passenger car that completed this PWC set.  I have the entire set and the Jarvis Manor announcements specifically refer to CP's iconic 'The Canadian' which has traversed Canada for many years.

What is the quality and type of sounds that this passenger car plays? Is it just announcements or is there more like sounds while it is moving?

Tom M - Just google Lionel 6-39197and when a list of headings comes up pertaining to this car, select the Lionel.com one and it will take you to a page out of a Lionel catalog that provides a description of what this car does.  From station boarding announcements, to calls for dinner sittings, and even a clickety-clack to emulate the sound of the car going over track joints.  The sound quality of my Jarvis Manor car is fine.   

Just curious. PWC series have been referred to as copies and reproductions. When these came out a few of my local hobby shops didn't like them being called that. They said that they were still originals because Lionel made them with the original dies. They also said it's like production was just continued and they are just as original just not old.

Bob.

Also vinyl has way better sound than a CD. CD's. May not contain all the pops and static noise but as a former DJ records always carried a way better sound range. I don't even want discuss mp3. Paul McCartney once said  why am I going to so much trouble recording with high fidelity sound when they are going to download it in an inferior format.

These are the only C.S. cars I bought a few years ago. I always wanted a (NEW 2559) for my PW set and these have two!

So, my Grandkids have these on their layout now.

We've picked up a number of PWC and Conventional Classic pieces over the years - well after their original release dates.

All have been very reliable.

The Texas Special AB units are probably the best of the PWC roster. Nice glossy finish.

Marty,

Completely agree regarding the Turbine and Trolley. Still waiting to see those in a catalog.

Were any PWC series pieces made in the USA or were all made off-shore?

@SusieQ posted:

Were any PWC series pieces made in the USA or were all made off-shore?

The PWC series production ran from 1997 through 2011. Lionel closed its U.S. production in 2001. (I think this correct.) So the early PWC items were made in the USA, and later items were made off-shore.

@MartyE - Regarding the video you posted above showing the Southern Rwy ABBA F3s with five (5) matching aluminum passenger cars, I'm aware that Lionel released a 4-car set (6-39119) in 2000 which had passenger silhouettes and black roofs (consisting of baggage, two coaches & observation); so is this the set shown in your video - along with what appears to be a Diner car that I'm unfamiliar with?

breezinup,

thank you for your response...........

Re: the Texas Special PWC F3 set, the finish has always been admired. I have a friend (who actually works for TW Trainworx) who bought a complete set when they first came out, and has been running them regularly, including constantly at many, many trainshows for years. "Running the wheels off" describes it - he says he has no idea how many hours it has on it, but a ton, and it has been extremely popular with visitors over the years. These PWC engines are very reliable runners. These F3s also have some of the best horns ever put in a Lionel engines (those on the Geeps are also outstanding). Speaking of paint finishes, the ones on other PWC engines I have are also great. The finishes on the PWC B&O and Rio Grande sets are terrific.

Besides the PWC F3 roster, Lionel made a couple other sets that are essentially the same thing, but without the PWC labelling. These include the Kansas City Southern set (no. 14500). Lionel called this an "Archive" set, being engines that were designed by Lionel in the Postwar years, but for whatever reason were never produced. Another F3 set that is similar to the PWC versions but without the PWC labeling is the Milwaukee Road set, no. 18140.

One thing I have enjoyed with the PWC engines is the ability to swap shells with other Postwar style engines. I have taken several PWC engine sets and swapped the shells. Very easy to do. So I have essentially converted the MPC era Illinois Central and Southern Pacific F3 sets to PWC sets, and done the same with the LTI era blue Santa Fe freight version F3s, as well as with an EP-5 and a number of Geeps.

(I agree on the vinyl record sound vs. CD and streaming. There's a reason for the resurgence in vinyl (and sale of turntables). Many audiophiles agree that vinyl gives a smoother sound.)

@PH1975 posted:

@MartyE - Regarding the video you posted above showing the Southern Rwy ABBA F3s with five (5) matching aluminum passenger cars, I'm aware that Lionel released a 4-car set (6-39119) in 2000 which had passenger silhouettes and black roofs (consisting of baggage, two coaches & observation); so is this the set shown in your video - along with what appears to be a Diner car that I'm unfamiliar with?

In addition to the no. 39119, Lionel also made an additional matching 2-car set, no. 39157. This set included the "Chattanoga" diner and the "Johnson City" combo.

Does anyone hope Lionel makes more PWC?

Terrance

@breezinup - Thanks very much!

Terrance

Yes to more PWC Series sets and especially to the Conventional Classic Series sets with the retro-inspired packaging.

@Former Member posted:

Also vinyl has way better sound than a CD. CD's. May not contain all the pops and static noise but as a former DJ records always carried a way better sound range. I don't even want discuss mp3. Paul McCartney once said  why am I going to so much trouble recording with high fidelity sound when they are going to download it in an inferior format.

@breezinup posted:

(I agree on the vinyl record sound vs. CD and streaming. There's a reason for the resurgence in vinyl (and sale of turntables). Many audiophiles agree that vinyl gives a smoother sound.)

I'm trying to determine how preferences in recorded music relate to the options available and the choices we make in fulfilling our hobby.

To me the term "audiophile" implies, and has always implied, one who seeks the ultimate in sound reproduction, as close as possible to reality.

I have a problem with the CD vs Vinyl argument in today's world because neither currently delivers under this definition, although at one time each was considered as the best way to do so.  Both are very old at this point, and as a result it's long past time for newer technology to raise the bar, yet there seems to be none.

Here's why: If you were to sit blindfolded in an auditorium and were played the same selection via a high-end audio system, off of Vinyl, from CD, and by a live orchestra, you could easily determine which was produced by the live orchestra.

Neither CD nor Vinyl are even remotely close to live.

Turning back to our hobby, I think from reading the comments on this thread, that we seem to agree that the quality of PWC copies, or reproductions, are as good as what was produced by Lionel Corporation originally back in the postwar period.

But, as model-train-o-philes are they state-of-the art?  Can you tell them from the real thing?  You have to admit that the very best 2-Rail Scale, if done well and photographed carefully, is virtually indistinguishable from the real thing.  Think @Santiago and his CB&Q 'E' units, or much of @Norm Charbonneau's 3-Rail Scale modeling.

What do you think?  Where does PWC fit in the continuum of our hobby?  It's definitely a good value, but is it also more?

Mike

@graz posted:

We've picked up a number of PWC and Conventional Classic pieces over the years - well after their original release dates.

All have been very reliable.

When the PWC sets were originally being shipped, there was a certain amount of back lash/complaining about the motors. It seemed as though the Chinese factories had trouble making an open frame, postwar-style motor.

Has this changed, or is it just that the bad ones were weeded out?