Lionel Sales help

Did you show them the official Lionel shipping site?

http://www.lionel.com/Products/ShippingSchedule/

Might also show them this forum so they can see that others are experiencing the same thing.

Allen always has a nice way of explaining the delay.

We all wait a long time for some items.

I have shown the customer the shipping schedule numerous times with not avail. He understands long production times, as he was a body designer for one of the Big 3 in Detroit for 30 years and his wife a motor designer with the same company.  However, they knew how to project future availability dates better than the train industry.

Who is the current regional sales rep for Lionel as all emails sent to Mike Braga are returned? 

There is a bit more money involved in the automotive industry than in the toy train industry. So they can afford to employ a few more project planners than Lionel, MTH or any of the others fore that matter.

You might also explain the situation in China with all the manufactures getting the boot last year and the damper that put on manufacturing in the short term.

He will not get it from another dealer any faster.

It is the reality of our hobby.

Dave

So true!  If you want to play in the arena of contemporary toy trains, you have to learn or condition yourself to exercise a whole lot of patience while awaiting new releases. 

The production scene in China has changed dramatically over the past few years, for a good number of reasons and in a variety of ways.  And many/most of the changes have definitely not been for the better as far as toy train manufacturing is concerned.  You can be quite sure that the manufacturers themselves--virtually all of them--are as unhappy about it as any of their customers...probably far more so since these delayed products directly impact their real-world livelihood and business success.

I understand the auto industry is much bigger, but you do not see them projecting a new automobile within 3-12 months from announcement and then take an additional 24-36 months to produce and ship.  The auto industry typically gives availability years out. 

As far as the happenings in China, there are many other industries still pumping out product with no hiccups.  One could believe the train industry is so small that the train companies get pushed back to end of the line on production schedules.  For instance, a few years ago when the bicycling industry was clamoring for carbon fiber road bikes from the far east, they did not realize that Boeing just signed a huge contract for carbon fiber production.  Guess who did not get carbon fiber?

Anyways, anyone know the current regional Lionel sales rep or someone on the inside other than Deb Esser?

It is what it is. 

The delays and reschedulings are something that nobody's happy with, but as David said, it won't come any faster from another dealer.

Somehow, I don't think that Lionel, MTH or whomever sits back in their chairs thinking of ways to delay a product.

There could be multiple reasons why something is delayed (and it's not just China, it happens domestically, too) and regardless of the best of intentions, some things are out of the maufacturer's control.  The supply chain has also shrunk over the past few years.  Certain components may have just one or two suppliers and if they get bottlenecked, well everbody suffers.

One thing is certain, the customer has no control over the production schedule.

And wasn't Boeing's 787 hit with long delays?  I don't think their customers were too happy about that, either.  The stockholders certainly weren't.

Rusty

seeing as no has given you an answer to your question on who to contact. why don't you try mike reagan MREAGAN@LIONEL.COM  he can at least forward your message to the correct person. if not the correct person maybe someone who can help.

Did you already charge the customer in full or receive a deposit from the customer? If so just refund the deposit, hold the order for the customer and your problem should be resolved.

I remember when the wood side passenger cars were first announced from MTH it took several years before they were finally produced.

Most of us toy train folk know that we may not live long enough to see the item we just ordered. Sadly it's just the way of doing overseas business. Some of those company's might make toy trains for a month then switch to making TVs or can openers.

Ok I was off topic here. No I don't really know anyone that could give you a definite date for any item.

It was very nice that Mike Reagan posted here, but isn't a sad situation that a Lionel dealer had to use the OGR Forum to gain traction with the people inside Lionel?

I was kind of wondering the same thing.

Rusty

Yes, I charged the customer in full at the time of the order.  I have had too many customers back out on special orders/prebook orders that I now require full payment up front.  If the customer wants deposit refunded, I cancel the order.  I have this policy in my two other departments that comprise over 95% of my business.

My dealings with Lionel's Customer Service and Technical Support have been very positive, every time.

They are always accommodating, considerate, friendly, helpful and professional.

No!  I don't work for Lionel, but I wish I could.

Ralph-RJL

Well, whatever works for you, I guess.  

Personally, I would never pay in full for a preorder (nothing I want or need is all that important).  The dealers I buy from don't even require a deposit.  I don't place a great many preorders in any event, and most all preorders that I do place these days are with one dealer.  That said, I also would never back out on such an order and leave a dealer hanging.

You may be the exception.  Many people in today's world tend to not have these same ethics.

The original question had nothing to do with the customer service/ tech support side.  Their performance has improved greatly over the past few years.  I was referring to the dealer sales department at Lionel.  Namely an outside or inside sales rep contact infomation.

There are two sides to every story and I can understand Train Dealer's point of view along with his upset customer's.  But I seriously doubt the customer will receive an response to his satifaction regardless of how high up Lionel's food chain he goes. 

Nothing can be delivered if it's not made yet. Pure and simple.  It doesn't matter if it's being built in China or the U.S. 

Where the finacial risk is taken agreed upon is between the dealer and the customer by whether advance payment is required or not.  It is, in a way, a contract.

I will admit to have a depost on an item with a brass importer and had worked on an advance "easy payment plan" in the past with another.  Both are S Scale brass importers and nowhere near the size of Lionel, MTH or even Weaver.

A depost by both was required and I knew that up front.  The easy payment plan was optional, it had the advantage of paying off a big buck item so when they arrived, it only had to be shipped. Refunds are issued by both if a project fails to receive enough reservations.

I also know by that the nature of the products I was interested in it was going to take a long while before I'd see them.  Longer than I'd like perhaps, but the alternatives are non-existant.   The one is particularly a long shot, something I thought I'd never seen made. 

And, I'll admit to backing out of an order once when I became unemployed about 12 years ago.  I had no clue as to how long it would last, so I decided food and a roof over my head was more important than my hobby.  My dealer understood and after I became employed again, I resumed my business with him, no harm, no foul.

Rusty

Yes, you are--unfortunately--all too right about that.

Train Dealer,

Not to offend you, I understood your question and I used this opportunity to mention my feelings and my experiences, with Lionel.

Oh! Yeah! I must mention, things would probably be a lot better, if the goodies were made here, in AMERICA!!!!!

Ralph-RJL

did you ever call mike reagan?

My father, who has been in the business for 35 years, stated there is no difference between service, product reliability and availability when product was produced here and now in the far east. I am not talking about quality or features.

Again, the service department has greatly improved, a part the consumer sees, but the train companies need to improve dealer relations.

Train Dealer,

A BIG 10-4!

I guess, I am thinking of the quality work from the fifties and before.

Ralph-RJL

@Train Dealer,

I do understand that you don't want to "get stuck" by someone backing out on an order.  I also understand that margins are pretty thin in the train business.  Wouldn't a deposit that is a much smaller percentage of the order take care of that problem?

I got burned early on with paying in full for a pre-order.  My money was tied up month after month while I waited for that item to come in.  Then it was delayed.  Many more months went by before it was finally cancelled.  I think my total wait was around 2 years.  During that time, I could have purchased and enjoyed something else but the dealer had my money.  So, I can also understand the frustration your customer is experiencing.  You have his money.  It may seem like a small amount but it could be a small fortune to your customer.  It sure was the case for me.

Now I was lucky that my dealer was honest.  I got my money back.  But a lot of things can happen when someone else is holding on to your money.  Paperwork can get lost or forgotten.  People can die or become ill and a business can be taken over by someone else or can fold up all together.  Worst case, the dealer loses the transaction and you no longer have any proof yourself.

I'm sure you're honest.  But try to put yourself in the shoes of your customer.  Your original post was about your frustration with Lionel and your experience as their customer.  Try to have some empathy for how your customers are experiencing YOUR customer service.

As an employee of a "train store" I found that there were few Manf/Dist that notified you when personnel changed.  The bigger they were the less likely you'd know.  However, communication is a two way street and if you maintain constant contact with your rep, then that is often reciprocated.  A company I dealt with let go our rep and then gagged the rep for 6 months!  I found out we had no rep through another hobby shop!  Live and learn. 

Eric above made some valid observations.  Patient conversation and empathy for the situation is all that can be offered at this point.  Our store did not require desposits, but our service was such that most customers offered of their own volition. 

FWIW

There is no way I would ever pay up front for any train preorder. I don't even put down a    deposit. Any dealer that ever asks me for a deposit loses my business plain and simple. It's time for this dealer to get out of the train business. If this is how you treat your customers then pretty soon you will be out of the train business anyway. As far as a sale rep goes, do you realize how small these companies are? If you think that sales reps are sitting around waiting for your call, think again. Just deal with it, it's all a part of retail.

The fact that you are posting the thread here to vent a little about a "customer breathing down your neck"  is the answer to your own question. 

You don't say what your other 2 product areas are (and I 'm not trying to get you to say, as I understand you may like to remain somewhat anonymous as to which store you run), but do those products suffer form the same production delays O gauge trains do? 

Anyone who has followed the hobby closely for a while knows that the ship dates (particularly before the pre-orders are due) are unrealistic at first for many items.  It's amazing the regularity with which ship dates are slipped immediately following the order deadline.  The initial proposed ship date is just part of the sales game.  While it's not expected for any casual customer to know this, I think most dealers understand it.

It sounds very much like your problem could be addressed by taking the 20% deposit you suggest you lose with a cancelled order and also indicate that the deposit is non-refundable (unless item is not made, in which case you obviously need to refund the deposit).

To your other main point, yes I would agree with you that Lionel should keep you in the loop more with respect to who your point of contact is.

That said, based on the topic, what answer could the rep give you that would solve your problem with your customer breathing down your neck?  Does the customer expect a form letter from Lionel explaining why his train is not delivered yet?

As you state, there is not an army of people doing these tasks, so when the "phone calls to return" are sifted through, it's possible the ones where an impact can actually change an outcome in some way may be prioritized a bit more.  (purely speculative here)

-Dave