That Rapido packaging looks just like Bachmann packaging.
Notice the one loco has a band around it's middle. Simple stuff saves damage. Lionel should watch this....but they will get it fixed.
I have a six pack of hoppers on order. I will have to wait to see what may be different. I have ordered Weaver cars with Die Cast trucks and with the plastic trucks. Once they started using that blister pack the cars seemed to be tight in them. Just looking at the photos at the beginning of this topic the blister packaging seems different. Maybe looser. So until mine arrive I would say that maybe the new packaging is a bit larger causing the movement........Paul
Well my damage report is in (for now). Out of 5 cars I had 3 broken trucks. The problem is with the bolster. There is a very thin flange that the truck screw holds onto, and they just snap off in transit, then more serious damage can really happen. I also had two broken doors on the ones where the trucks were flying around.
The trucks are a very easy fix because of their design. They have screw on side frames and a screw on coupler shank. Three screws to replace the bolster, very simpleif you can get the parts.
I still have six of the railbox cars coming, and I'm scared to see the damage on them. I'll call Lionel as soon as I have a total. 
Notch 6 posted:Before we all go nuts and burn this thread to the ground, I'd like to interject some first hand knowledge of the Lionscale build process. I know for a fact that each one of those cars are hand assembled by a VERY SMALL team in Concord. The team does their best to get the cars right. They had even eliminated the use of electric screw drivers to install the trucks because they could not produce the "feel" they wanted for how the trucks roll and turn. Every one of those trucks are hand installed and tightened.
I would bet this turns out to be a packaging issue that is exploited by the shipment of the cars. Lionel is still figuring out what they can do with the Weaver tooling and my guess is Weaver didn't volunteer the information that, " Oh by the way, the floors on these cars don't stay in place when shipped." This issue could have been compounded by the fact that Lionel has tried to make improvements such as the added weights, etc. which would increase the damage factor if a floor gets loose.
Bottom line is there is certainly a learning curve going on with these new cars and my guess is that Lionel is learning about the shipping issues created along with everyone else. I know that the Lionel group is working to get things right and I can also guarantee that those cars did not leave in that condition.
My guess is that Lionel will make this right with the customers who have damaged cars and will make changes to future runs to prevent this from happening again.
Sorry, but I do have to question and/or take exception to some of your comments.
1. " I know for a fact that each one of those cars are hand assembled by a VERY SMALL team in Concord. The team does their best to get the cars right."
What is the skill and experience level of this very small team? Given that the production of LionScale cars in Concord is new, I'm sure Lionel will proceed with caution. IMHO, most likely Lionel has brought in some temporary workers from an agency such as Adecco to get the production started. By using temps, Lionel avoids the high cost and long term commitment of hiring employees. The assembly of these box cars is pretty simple. There are 2 screws to hold the trucks to the floor. Beyond that, everything snaps together. What sort of QC process is followed?
2. "I would bet this turns out to be a packaging issue that is exploited by the shipment of the cars."
I might agree with you if all the box car sets had been shipped as individual sets (as they are to the consumer from the dealer). But, for the larger Lionel dealers I'm sure these sets were shipped on wrapped pallets. I can't believe that the pallets were so badly handled that every box bar in the pallet would have been damaged. Yet, the large dealer from whom I purchased my sets said that every set they received from Lionel was damaged.
3. "... I can also guarantee that those cars did not leave in that condition."
How exactly can you make that guarantee? It is possible that all of these sets were damaged in transit from Concord to the dealers. But, I have a tough time accepting that explanation given these sets would have been palletized. That leaves the possibility that the sets were damaged before they left Concord. I have no knowledge of how these box cars get from the assembly line to their individual boxes and then to the set boxes and then to the pallet. Given that LionScale assembly is a startup operation, I suspect there is a lot of manual handling vs. automated packing.
I share your optimism that Lionel will sort out the issues with these box cars and will replace all of the damaged box cars. But, I fear that Lionel will "circle the wagons" and not be completely open about the cause of the problem and the specific actions taken to resolve the problem. I suspect our only insight will be to see what changes are made to the box cars and/or packaging. I know that Lionel has no obligation to explain the problem and corrective action taken to end consumers. But, the best way to establish brand loyalty is to build trust by having open and timely communications with your customers. That is one of the most important things I learned in my 20+ year career at a major consumer packaged goods manufacturing company.
I am going to bow out of this thread until after I hear from Lionel as to when and how they will make things right for me.
Guys, nothing about these problems is about the assembly process. It is all about truck design and packaging. I'm sure they all left the factory in perfect condition. They just weren't properly prepared to travel.
Big_Boy_4005 posted:Guys, nothing about these problems is about the assembly process. It is all about truck design and packaging. I'm sure they all left the factory in perfect condition. They just weren't properly prepared to travel.
I opened 1 of my 6 from CharliesRo and I shall share my experience stating only facts.
-Shipper Box and Blue Orange Lionel Box perfectly fine with no dents and shipping damage.
-Taking the Blue Orange Lionel box out of the shipper and both sides of the box not tucked into itself (all 6 car boxes were like that on both sides).
-Inspecting the first box car had loose parts rattling around. Found a black tab and a brown piece.
-Found a black tab that broke off from the truck area that holds back the truck from swiveling too far.
-Brown piece was actually from the shell of the box car. (Have attached a picture too 
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-Admiring the printer work from the production video and plastic bar piece above the door popped off.
-Part of the graphics got overlapped or handled wrong when it was wet and part of the numbers are not legible on the shell.
-Tried to assemble it in front of 4 people and the floor of the car was very tight from opposite corners and it left scratches on the inside trying to get it out of the shell due to the assembly required.
-Felt sick with the product and embarrassed during show and tell. A picture was taken of the worse part and the entire boxcar got put back into the box then back into the shipper and set it down in the corner. Didn't try to touch the other 5 cars.
Side note observation and thoughts: The boxcar loosely bangs itself around with all the metal parts in the shell and in the plastic container, but why was it not fully assembled? Is that how all Weaver cars were (never owned one)? Even the plastic container holding the box car has impressions where the trucks would fit into? Maybe it was generic mold from another car and these Moden Boxcars frames are too long to use the same plastic container so it was decided to just loosely fit into it with fingers crossed. Doesn't seem like USPS roughed it up to cause this.
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I know things like this can be very frustrating when you get a new train item.
I am also certain that Lionel wouldn't put out something like this intentionally. Think what a problem this will be for them and how frustrated they must be, not to mention their cost to fix these things. Does anyone really think Lionel wanted to go through all this intentionally?
Lionel will get to the bottom of the problem(s), correct them and everyone will be properly taken care of with corrected and functional products. However, it may take them a little while to figure it all out, make corrections and get things back on track, so to speak.
I agree with several of the others here that this is a completely new process for them and they will just need some time to work through it all. And remember they are trying to make things right here in the good old USA now, so that is good for all of us. It could also result in many more items being brought back here for production instead of being made in a foreign country somewhere.
Randy T posted:When it did fall out on me was when I added weight and changed to the diecast trucks and couplers if I did not pick them up correctly.
Seems to be essentially what Lionel did here to cause this issue.
The broken trucks probably occur because only the side frame is diecast...the structure is plastic...which is fine but the connection may need a re-work. This is all about good intentions and a small learning curve. The majority of damage occurs after the trucks come loose no doubt. Those fragile plastic nibs that hold the frame in are not designed for much weight...so they break first. Weaver stuff was always somewhat delicate.
Has Lionel indicated what corrective action they will be taking?
Cheers!
Keith
Just a little anecdote for those that think shipping today with automated equipment is not hard on our trains...
A few months back I purchased a 3rd Rail J3a Super Hudson from a Forum member in Texas. He shipped it to me in N.E. Florida via FedEx Ground. The engine and tender were securely taped to the original boards 3rd Rail used. The engine and tender were in the original open-cell foam padding, in the original inner box. The box itself was in the original 3rd Rail outer cardboard box. THIS box was then put in a larger box with styrofoam packing peanuts on all six sides allowing about 2" of peanuts on each side of the box. Original box was package taped securely and arrived with no discernible outer damage; I even took pictures of it to prove any shipping damage.
After I opened the box, the original 3rd Rail packaging showed NO impact damage anywhere. Imagine my surprise when I unpacked the locomotive only to find the 3rd Rail board the locomotive was taped to was broken in two pieces and the rear pickup roller mount was broken.
I eventually fashioned a new pickup roller mount to eliminate the possibility of having to ship the unit back to California for repair.
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Exactly what happened to me two. However, the second set I received as a replacement was fine.
I posted in another thread that I took my damaged LionScale box cars to Lionel Customer Service. I called and got an RA# and personally drove them to Concord (I live about an hour away).
Dean and his Customer Service staff were great. Dean himself installed new trucks and frames on my box cars.
There will definitely be changes made to the packaging for these box cars.
Even for a 100 plus year old company there is a learning curve doing something new. Glad they did you right.
AMCDave posted:Even for a 100 plus year old company there is a learning curve doing something new. Glad they did you right.
Well, the Lionel Brand is 100 plus years old, but the company being 100 years old, I'd have to disagree on that point. The original company that started it all (Lionel Corporation) divested itself of its toy train manufacturing and selling over 47 years ago. So the Lionel of today is a completely separate entity, as was the other previous acquisitions of the brand name and product line after 1969. 
I was afraid that we would see issues like this. I've never had any luck with the Weaver designs that use the 4 loop/pin arrangement to hold the floors and bodies together. Every Weaver car I ever bought with that arrangement eventually broke. Ironically, all of the modern Lionel cars (Not Lionscale) have been great.
Hopefully they can fix the issue, but that will probably take a redesign. Which makes one wonder why they even bothered in the first place?
"So the Lionel of today is a completely separate entity, as was the other previous acquisitions of the brand name and product line after 1969. "
Surely you jest? The current company owns all the extant tooling, the product archives, and the paper records of the original company except for stuff they lost or sold off piece by piece.
Ford Motor Company doesn't have the same group of people involved as they did 100 years ago either, but no one is suggesting they are not "really" Ford. Same for the US federal government, the US Army, etc. Different century, different people, same institutions. To state otherwise is contrary to facts and reality. Nothing remains the same for 100+ years. But Lionel is still the legitimate heir to everything they've been historically, including remaining physical possessions.
Mike W. posted:The broken trucks probably occur because only the side frame is diecast...the structure is plastic...
Of course it is. 
I was planning on buying some of these to put under my older Weaver cars. Now I'm not honestly sure that is what I am going to do. Maybe they'll make it out of delrin instead, or die-cast - like it should have been made in the first place.
Fred
Landsteiner posted:"So the Lionel of today is a completely separate entity, as was the other previous acquisitions of the brand name and product line after 1969.
Surely you jest? The current company owns all the extant tooling, the product archives, and the paper records of the original company except for stuff they lost or sold off piece by piece.
Ford Motor Company doesn't have the same group of people involved as they did 100 years ago either, but no one is suggesting they are not "really" Ford. Same for the US federal government, the US Army, etc. Different century, different people, same institutions. To state otherwise is contrary to facts and reality. Nothing remains the same for 100+ years. But Lionel is still the legitimate heir to everything they've been historically, including remaining physical possessions.
No, Neil I didn't surely jest. The fact that you started with "The current company" essentially validated my point.
"It is a completely separate company with no direct connection from the original one founded by Joshua Lionel Cowen."
No direct connection? How did they come into ownership of all the remaining property, both tangible and intangible, of the original Lionel? It wasn't theft or usurpation. It was orderly corporate change of ownership of the means of production (tooling) and the intellectual property (patents, trademarks and trade dress).
Landsteiner posted:"It is a completely separate company with no direct connection from the original one founded by Joshua Lionel Cowen."
No direct connection? How did they come into ownership of all the remaining property, both tangible and intangible, of the original Lionel? It wasn't theft or usurpation. It was orderly corporate change of ownership of the means of production (tooling) and the intellectual property (patents, trademarks and trade dress).
There is no direct connection. Did Lionel Corporation sell off its train product line to Lionel LLC in 1969? No, because Lionel LLC wasn't even in existence then.
There is a connection, which I certainly and freely grant, and that is toy trains, and the fact that the CURRENT company owns the rights to the name, manufacturing rights, tooling, and other associated trademarks like MagneTraction, it does not refute in any way or part of my original post that today's Lionel is a completely separate entity.
Just an FYI, for those referring Weaver packaging as shrink-wrapped to cardboard sleeve, that packaging was gone by 2008 as Weaver models went to more expensive clamshell packaging and die cast trucks and couplers on their Ultraline product in 2009 til the end. The tight clamshell inner liner along with the FOAM piece screwed between the trucks and the FLOOR dropped damaged returns significantly from 30 percent to almost zero percent damaged product. Lionel should have copied that design to the T!
So if Lionel does NOT have something preventing the cars trucks from swiveling in transit, there in lies the packaging problem.
Of all the responses above, I did not read if Lionel did something to prevent the trucks from swiveling in the packaging.
John Korling posted:There is no direct connection. Did Lionel Corporation sell off it's train product line to Lionel LLC? No.
There is a connection, which I certainly and freely grant, and that is toy trains, and the fact that the CURRENT company owns the rights to the name, manufacturing rights, tooling, and other associated trademarks like MagneTraction, but it does not refute in any way or part of my original post that today's Lionel is a completely separate entity.
Very brief summary
In 1969 Lionel Corporation licensed the "Lionel" name and tooling to General Mills which allowed General Mills to produce, market, and sell trains under the Lionel name. Effectively the trains were spun off from the Lionel Corporation to General Mills. The Lionel Corporation continued and opened a chain of "Lionel Playworld" toy stores that were similar to Toys-R-Us. Incidentally I bought my first Lionel train set from Lionel Playworld.
General Mills got tired of the toy business and spun off the toy business as Kenner Parker Toys in the mid 1980's. Kenner Parker did not last too long as the Lionel train line was soon bought by Richard Kughn in roughly 1986-87 and the Lionel line becomes Lionel Trains, Inc. In the mean time the old Lionel Corporation and their toy stores continued.
Now comes 1993; Lionel Corporation goes bankrupt.
http://www.nytimes.com/1993/06...-city-toy-chain.html
As part of bankruptcy Lionel Corporations sells all assets. What happens now is very interesting. Lionel Trains, Inc. purchases all assets of the Lionel Corporation. So, what we have is that the Lionel trademarks and intellectual property of the old Lionel Corporation purchased by Richard Kughn who had bought the Lionel product line from General Mills and those IP and trademark rights were merged back with the train line.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lionel_Kiddie_City
Thus, it is a matter of opinion, but it seems to me that while there was a period of time that the train line and the Corporation were separated; that separation ended in the mid 1990's when the Lionel Corporation was merged back with train line when the assets of the Corporation were puchased by Richard Kughn.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lionel_Kiddie_City
Thus, it is a matter of opinion, but it seems to me that while there was a period of time that the train line and the Corporation were separated; that separation ended in the mid 1990's when the Lionel Corporation was merged back with train line when the assets of the Corporation were puchased by Richard Kughn.
Merged? How can you merge a company that's defunct? The context of what you're angling at is the trademark of the name, not the company. A close analogy to this is the "Delorean Motor Company" that is headquartered in Texas. They own the DMC name and company logo, they repair Deloreans, they own the surplus of original parts from the Belfast, Northern Ireland manufacturing plant, and are even starting to build and sell "build-to-order" Deloreans using existing leftover VIDs but it would be far from accurate to say it is the original company founded in 1975 and has been in existence ever since.
