were these engines any good? do they have a pittman motor? tell me the good and the bad about them. running wise and smoke output wise and electronic board wise. I am thinking for some reason I need one. did a google search and havent found much. thanks.
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Product No. or Nos.?
Mike
They are the best as far as mechanics with simpler electronics. Yes, they have a large Pittman. Downside is they have two chuffs and a puffer smoke unit. Can be upgraded though.
Pete
Is this the one you are asking about? Lionel 6-28072
The TMCC J3 family: 6-28072 J3a, 6-38041 J3a ( from the Ann. set ) and 6-28084 Dreyfuss Hudosn ….all share the same mechanicals, as mentioned above, bullet proof drive lines, all have bolt on removable drivers, so upgrading is a wee bit easier…by far, one the best built Lionel Hudsons to come out of the Far East….as many of the turn of the century Korean built Lionel TMCC engines were…..
Pat
sorry I had a brain fart. here is a screen shot of the one I am looking at.
not expecting answers so soon. thanks you guys.
I have to laugh because these models come up on the bay fairly regularly, often with multiple sellers competing for your business at the same time.
When I see them there's always one seller who puts the word 'rare' in the title for the posting, even though they're not, and asks for a ridiculous price as a result.
Inevitably one of the competing sellers, or both, has a much more reasonable asking price.
Why? Because they're not really rare. They're quite commonplace.
As a result you can get them at good prices -- just keep an eye out for the reasonable sellers.
Mike
28072 Cab 5444 is the separate sale engine, not so rare. 38041 Cab 5433 was part of set and is somewhat rare especially sold separately. There may be 25 5444s for every 5433.
Pete
@Mellow Hudson Mike posted:I have to laugh because these models come up on the bay fairly regularly, often with multiple sellers competing for your business at the same time.
When I see them there's always one seller who puts the word 'rare' in the title for the posting, even though they're not, and asks for a ridiculous price as a result.
Inevitably one of the competing sellers, or both, has a much more reasonable asking price.
Why? Because they're not really rare. They're quite commonplace.
As a result you can get them at good prices -- just keep an eye out for the reasonable sellers.
Mike
Best time was when the latest and greatest Legacy J3a hit the streets,….those TMCC J3’s went for pennies on the dollar,…..probably the horrible up tick on them now is my fault, …I was snapping them up like cord wood…..😁….
Pat
The one for $1299 is a joke, I bought the black Vision Line Hudson for $1400 recently, why in the world would spend $1299 for that one?
too funny guys. yes they can be selling for ridiculous prices.
was this model a good and reliable runner. I see sid did a superchuffer mod and it smoked and sounded great.
I always saw this model and thought someday if a almost new in the box came along I might snag one if the price was right.
just did not know a lot about this lionel model. never see one in person.
wish I could have gotten the legacy version at the time. now those are hard to find.
I picked up the 50th anniversary J3a a couple of years ago from a forum member for less than half the price of the legacy version. Solid runner, excellent sound, IMO one of the best NYC whistles Lionel has done, I prefer it to the legacy version.
I've grown tired of the glitches, hiccups, errors and defects that seem to pop up on nearly every new Legacy loco. I've also grown tired of the cookie cutter steam sound Lionel is using these days with the excessive amount of squeaks , groans and" hee haw sounds" that become so repetative the realism is lost.
IMO, what the older TMCC stuff lacks in operating finesse and electronic gimmicks, it makes up for in (sound) character and build quality.
One day I'll have it upgraded, but its still one of my favorites.
@Lionelzwl2012 posted:too funny guys. yes they can be selling for ridiculous prices.
was this model a good and reliable runner. I see sid did a superchuffer mod and it smoked and sounded great.
I always saw this model and thought someday if a almost new in the box came along I might snag one if the price was right.
just did not know a lot about this lionel model. never see one in person.
wish I could have gotten the legacy version at the time. now those are hard to find.
There is a Legacy version on the TCA site if you are a member, new in the box. Here is TMCC 5433 with its 50 cent chuff mod.
Pete
@RickO posted:Lets not forget the Legacy version comes with 5 chuffs, and costs alot more than 50 cents to fix it, too
5 chuffs? I hadn't heard about that little issue. 
Which specific version had that issue?
True John. You pay for that feature. Lionel will fix it but the programming is wrong from the factory.
Rick, don’t forget most of the non special order Hudsons came with the added class lights.
Pete
thanks for the vids guys
Here is 5444 with a similar mod. Old video, sorry for the poor lighting.
Pete
@Norton posted:Rick, don’t forget most of the non special order Hudsons came with the added class lights.
Pete
Right, and the special order ones have mud spots over the holes. It still boggles my mind Lionel just didn't use the tooling without the class lights like they did 20 years ago.
norton, what upgrades does this engine need? or does it need any at all. seems johns superchuffer is one of them. am I right?
Here is a video I made last February showcasing my Lionel NYC #5433. Please enjoy.
Donald
@Lionelzwl2012 posted:norton, what upgrades does this engine need? or does it need any at all. seems johns superchuffer is one of them. am I right?
There are a number of ways to change the two chuffs to four. You can use Johns chuff generator plus his super chuffer to drive the smoke unit and provide a signal to the radio board. You will get some extra lighting features in the bargain. Plus the puffer unit has to be replaced with a fan smoke unit.
My method is to replace the two lobe chuff cam with a four lobe. Requires making a new cam. I machine mine but a few now make them using a 3D printer.
Two other methods embed magnets in the cam and replacing the micro switch with a hall effect sensor or reed switch.
Lastly you can use an optical reflector to detect white lines on the back of a driver.
I believe most opt for John’s solution. All require replacing the smoke unit though.
Pete
is the lionel box info in the one I pictured wrong. it states it has a fan driven smoke unit. knowing lionel they mislabeled the box back in the day.
you have one so I think you would know. thanks for the heads up on mods for this one.
thanks also don for the video.
sorry norton. looks like I missread the box. it does say puffing smoke unit in the features description.
38041 on Ebay sold without the cars for $800, they have the set 31705 as well over $1200. I got mine set for less than the set price, but over the single engine price(plus tax).
28072 is all over Ebay with a crazy range of prices. $1300 is the high, nothing below $700 that I see.
They are overpriced much like the Mohawks have been since the catalog release last year. Some of the TMCC Mohawks usually sit around $600 and change, even the conventional Mohawk from 1991 has the same pricing issues of way out of the ballpark, lowest I have seen is around $300. Highest, you name it, its up there with the Hudson's.
@gunrunnerjohn posted:5 chuffs? I hadn't heard about that little issue.
Yep, ….the board that came stock has the wrong gear ratio figured in for chuff, ….I believe Gary ( superwarp1) had found this out right out the gate, and Bruk figured out which RCMC worked better with the Hudosn’s gear ratio, ….I think the stink got loud enough for Lionel to realize the foopa, and they were swapping boards with folks….I bought the Pacemaker outfit, and sure enough, 5 chuffs, …..anything over a crawl sounded like a 50 cal lighting off…..I swapped out the board, AND the crummy cannon motor ……😁
Pat
@gunrunnerjohn posted:5 chuffs? I hadn't heard about that little issue.
Yeah John, apparently the person who was working on the graphite paint was also the person responsible for the chuff rate. If you recall, all of the graphite smokebox engines came out sparkling silver. I guess they had the other person work on the chuff rate of all the other engines those days.
I like both the older TMCC and the recent LEGACY versions of the J3a.
Both have their share of pluses and minuses, as stated by members above. If simplicity, a bullet proof motor and drive train, and rugged build quality is what you're after, definitely lean more to the TMCC models. If you want the more recent electronics, slow speeds, better smoke and sound features, and variety in road numbers and paint schemes, the LEGACY models should fit the bill adequately.
I usually see the older TMCC 6-28072 models in the $450-600 range most of the time at train shows or in places where the sellers know about current values. The 6-38041 models tend to go a smidge higher (maybe $700 or so max), but definitely tend to stay less than any of the LEGACY models.
If you do get either of the TMCC models, I definitely recommend fitting it with an Electric Railroad Cruise M module by 3rd Rail. It's not as good as the 200 speed steps on LEGACY, but it'll make the locomotive perform SO much better than the limited 32 speed steps out of the factory IMO.
@harmonyards posted:Yep, ….the board that came stock has the wrong gear ratio figured in for chuff, ….I believe Gary ( superwarp1) had found this out right out the gate, and Bruk figured out which RCMC worked better with the Hudosn’s gear ratio, ….I think the stink got loud enough for Lionel to realize the foopa, and they were swapping boards with folks….I bought the Pacemaker outfit, and sure enough, 5 chuffs, …..anything over a crawl sounded like a 50 cal lighting off…..I swapped out the board, AND the crummy cannon motor ……😁
Pat
On those J3a with five chuffs, you can remove the RCMC board, send it to Lionel and they will reprogram for four chuffs. OR you can buy a RCMC board direct from Lionel (I would do it during the 50% off sale) and it will be correctly programmed, then you will have a spare. Since these engines are out of warranty, I'm unsure if they will take the entire engine back.
I sent the RCMC board back for reprogramming.
@Lionelzwl2012 posted:sorry I had a brain fart. here is a screen shot of the one I am looking at.
I had this engine once in my collection. Kind of wish I kept it. Great sounds, great runner. Only issue is the traction tires are on the center driving wheel. This causes the engine to wobble down the track like a seesaw. Lionel used to have a driver set you could purchase to fix this but am unsure if it's still available
@superwarp1 posted:I had this engine once in my collection. Kind of wish I kept it. Great sounds, great runner. Only issue is the traction tires are on the center driving wheel. This causes the engine to wobble down the track like a seesaw. Lionel used to have a driver set you could purchase to fix this but am unsure if it's still available
Gary, I thought someone had said in one of the Hudson post about this engine about switching the drivers and moving the traction tire set to the back? I think this would have been back on a 2017-2018 topic, maybe Pete @Norton or Pat @harmonyards can verify if my memory serves me correctly.
I do know the lowest I have seen 28072 has been $600, but usually they won't last long on whatever seller is selling them. The others of course have been up and not sold because they are overpriced or possibly no one wants an older engine with older boards. I would say it's overpricing as to why they're still up.
@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:Gary, I thought someone had said in one of the Hudson post about this engine about switching the drivers and moving the traction tire set to the back? I think this would have been back on a 2017-2018 topic, maybe Pete @Norton or Pat @harmonyards can verify if my memory serves me correctly.
I do know the lowest I have seen 28072 has been $600, but usually they won't last long on whatever seller is selling them. The others of course have been up and not sold because they are overpriced or possibly no one wants an older engine with older boards. I would say it's overpricing as to why they're still up.
Either Norton or Pat would have to chime in. Just swapping location of drivers would put the blind driver front or back which I think wouldn't be ideal. Back in the day I purchased the kit from Lionel
The 28072 came with Scullin Disks. It was cataloged with Boxpoks like the prototype. After many complaints Lionel offered a set of Boxpoks for this engine. Given the drivers are held on with screws the change was not too bad. If anyone tries this make sure you heat up the screws to break down the loctite. No need for it anyway.
I don’t recall an issue with the traction tires. I typically replace with undersize tires which sit flush with the groove.
Pete
@Norton posted:The 28072 came with Scullin Disks. It was cataloged with Boxpoks like the prototype. After many complaints Lionel offered a set of Boxpoks for this engine. Given the drivers are held on with screws the change was no too bad. If anyone tries this make sure you heat up the screws to break down the loctite. No need for it anyway.
I don’t recall an issue with the traction tires. I typically replace with undersize tires which sit flush with the groove.
Pete
That could be a easy fix, swap out the thick Lionel traction tires with MTH tires. The boxpoks drivers came with the traction tire for the rear and not the middle. So if any of the Bay listings have the boxpok drivers the traction tires should be in the rear.
Posted in 2017, 28072 after replacing the drivers, shortening the drawbars and adding (and subtracting) a few details.
Pete
I do remember the loctite having to heat the screws and the swapping out the drivers with what Lionel offered, maybe I'm mistaken about moving the drivers around?
If you want the poxbok drivers you are SOL
I don't have the engine(yet). I know Pat and I were talking about some other engines a while ago and wheels. Don't recall all of which ones.
@superwarp1 posted:If you want the poxbok drivers you are SOL
Try Bill at S&W. He had some a while back.
Pete
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