Maybe I'm missing something but why are the Vanderbilt's coming out as visionline when they have no more features than a standard legacy engine.
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@Robert Cushman posted:Maybe I'm missing something but why are the Vanderbilt's coming out as visionline when they have no more features than a standard legacy engine.
You can charge more if it's called a Visionline. 
@gunrunnerjohn posted:You can charge more if it's called a Visionline.
Black box effect.
Well, the only thing I see which I believe is on the fireman's side would be the swinging bell. I guess that would be what puts it into the black box?
@Robert Cushman posted:Maybe I'm missing something but why are the Vanderbilt's coming out as visionline when they have no more features than a standard legacy engine.
- Swinging Bell
- Road Number Specific Details
- Road Number Specific Crew Talk
- Kinematic Coupler
- Force Couple.
All spelled out on page 17. These are typically associated with VL Engines.
Maybe I'm wrong but I don't think the Commodore Vanderbilt locomotives had a bell? I was trying to see on the catalog image where the swinging bell was but I couldn't find it?
@ArtsModelTrains posted:Maybe I'm wrong but I don't think the Commodore Vanderbilt locomotives had a bell? I was trying to see on the catalog image where the swinging bell was but I couldn't find it?
Yes, the CV had a bell, down in a pocket, atop the boiler .. amongst the shrouding.
Pat
@MartyE posted:
- Swinging Bell
- Road Number Specific Details
- Road Number Specific Crew Talk
- Kinematic Coupler
- Force Couple.
All spelled out on page 17. These are typically associated with VL Engines.
Trying to locate that swinging bell.
@harmonyards posted:Yes, the CV had a bell, down in a pocket, atop the boiler .. amongst the shrouding.
Pat
Interesting, ok the research I did said they've removed the bell to reduce wind resistance.
THE BLACK BOX PRICE EFFECT.
Im a huge NYC modeler and I feel robbed by lionel calling this a vision engine.
- Swinging Bell - DOESNT HAVE, THEY COPY AND PASTED..... INSTEAD OF EDITING?
- Road Number Specific Details - only the grey version was real, unless they are copy paste from the j1e hudson .
- Road Number Specific Crew Talk -so what. Most folks dont like the crewtalk but, I do.
- Kinematic Coupler - so what
- Force Couple. - so what
VISIONLINE supposed to have vision smoke effect and unique features. Nothing here is impressive.
The hiawataha for less money has pop off smoke?
I hate that I love NYC so much and waited for this release for it to be a huge dud. I hope they change something, but likely wont.
I wouldnt mind a weathered version or a Black version either.
Rant over, Carry on.
-Sara
@ArtsModelTrains posted:Interesting, ok the research I did said they've removed the bell to reduce wind resistance.
That’s incorrect………., Page 50 in the book “Know Thy Hudsons” explicitly describes the recesses atop the boiler for the bell, whistle, safety valves, & low water alarm. Specifically for the Commodore Vanderbilt.
Pat
@Sara Acqua posted:THE BLACK BOX PRICE EFFECT.
Im a huge NYC modeler and I feel robbed by lionel calling this a vision engine.
- Swinging Bell - DOESNT HAVE, THEY COPY AND PASTED..... INSTEAD OF EDITING?
- Road Number Specific Details - only the grey version was real, unless they are copy paste from the j1e hudson .
- Road Number Specific Crew Talk -so what. Most folks dont like the crewtalk but, I do.
- Kinematic Coupler - so what
- Force Couple. - so what
VISIONLINE supposed to have vision smoke effect and unique features. Nothing here is impressive.
The hiawataha for less money has pop off smoke?
I hate that I love NYC so much and waited for this release for it to be a huge dud. I hope they change something, but likely wont.
I wouldnt mind a weathered version or a Black version either.
Rant over, Carry on.
-Sara
Sara, what do you mean by doesn’t have a swinging bell?…..are you referring to the art work in the new catalog? …..
Pat
@harmonyards posted:Sara, what do you mean by doesn’t have a swinging bell?…..are you referring to the art work in the new catalog? …..
Pat
on page 37 of the catalog, in the paragraph it says it has the same features as the j1e minus the swinging bell, I'm talking about the Commodore. Then in the box next to it, it says Vision features for all locos, swinging bell. The CV doesn't have a bell that's viable for vision use on the outside as far as I understand.
I know there is one recessed on the left side.
I would like to echo Sara's comments as well about essentially 'not qualifying' as a Vision locomotive.
"Road number specific details"?
"Road number specific Crew talk"? Doesn't Lionel realize that the original Commodore was a one-off locomotive?
Kinetic coupler/force coupler - "So what" ....so eloquently stated! Lol
@c.sam posted:I would like to echo Sara's comments as well about essentially 'not qualifying' as a Vision locomotive.
"Road number specific"?
"Crew talk specific"? Doesn't Lionel realize that the original Commodore was a one-off locomotive?
Kinetic coupler/force coupler - "So what" ....so eloquently stated! Lol
Pop off smoke on a smaller engine, hiawatha? for cheaper? The crewtalk and sounds is all just an electronic data file, and charge me way more money for less physical features? Visionline, Vision, it was always about the smoke features and other physical features, swinging bell, pop off smoke, dynamo, clyinder steam, and triplex wheel slip etc.
Sounds don't qualify in my book, nice touch but meh. ok maybe i'm not over ranting.
Hope your doing well Sam
@Sara Acqua posted:on page 37 of the catalog, in the paragraph it says it has the same features as the j1e minus the swinging bell, I'm talking about the Commodore. Then in the box next to it, it says Vision features for all locos, swinging bell. The CV doesn't have a bell that's viable for vision use on the outside as far as I understand.
I know there is one recessed on the left side.
Ok, I seen what you’re cooking now,……..clearly nobody’s double checking catalog stats …..😉
Pat
Maybe I'm wrong, I've never owned a Vision Line product before, but I thought Vision Line locos were supposed to feature a new feature never previously seen on a locomotive?
Are they running out of new ideas that would be economically viable?
