Looking for a Lionel 2025 Vol 1 Conversation

@DL Brunette posted:

Hi Chris!  First, I liked your layout article in OGR Run 339. It's Fantastic!

I think that the 2133 set probably has limited sound.  The set below from 2019 may have been the last conventional set, it did have horn and bell sound, with volume control.  The catalog is so big, the omission was probably missed in the editing process.  Lionel should clarify this issue.   I fixed the buck tooth looking front coupler on the set below.  I loved the fact that Lionel still produces those 027 passenger cars.   Best, Dave

Dave,

Thanks for posting this. Brought back memories of when this was released. And, yes, I think you are correct. This was the last purely conventional offering from Lionel. I still run mine and also use those passenger cars behind some PW steamers.

For us PW fans, I had hopes we might see something in the 2025 catalog. The Prairie Set (with the 2400 cars) and the NYC Diesel Set are tempting but I'll pass at those prices.

Nothing in it for me. I like some of the Area 51 and Halloween cars, but I could never bring myself to pay that money, especially for a fictional railroad. I buy my Area 51/Halloween stuff at auctions where it (usually) brings significantly less.

My catalog arrived in the mail this morning. I just looked through it quickly. But one thing that struck me is the amount of still available items. Are these items still in the warehouse, at the dealer for preorders, or on the water?

I was able to pick up a physical copy of the catalog yesterday from B&M. My friends and I looked through and were able to thin out the most interesting stuff.
For myself, I’ll probably order either the red 265E CV or the spoked driver CV. Might even consider a scale anniversary boxcar but will have to see what the budget is.

@Landsteiner posted:

" And with so much product already on the market"

Many folks do not want to buy used or new old stock without warranty, so the only way we will know whether it's an issue to the average non-OGR Forum hobbyists is if the next few catalogs are 15-40 pages .  I'm betting not, but speculation is just that.

The current market approach seems to be low volumes of unique appearing locos and rolling stock, so that there is something in the catalog for everyone. The novelty/eye candy approach.  Very different from what happens in HO and N for example.  This approach is also very different from most periods in Lionel's long history. Presumably modern manufacturing/decorating techniques make that approach possible despite lacking economies of volume production.  Lionel has never before had 250 page catalogs twice a year with substantial numbers of "new" product.  So something has changed.  I cannot imagine they are doing this without strong evidence that it will work and be profitable.

I'm not sure I agree with point about warranty.  Truth be told, warranty as a selling point is probably pretty far down the list for new buyers.  And unfortunately we are a long ways down the road from the days of Williams' lifetime warranty, "big rugged Lionel trains", or even "Quality in the tradition you remember".   We are squarely in the era of "n days after production or sale".

I do agree with you that we are in the era of "eye candy" as evidenced by the myriad custom runs (using the same underlying molds and tooling).  Re-use as practiced in manufacturing is what allows this game to continue.  And apparetnly FOMO (Fear Of Missing Out) is also a real thing.

Lionel might very well attract "non-train" people with this catalog.  There are a number of marketing ties in it - Polar Express, Harry Potter, Star Wars, Star Trek, Halloween items, and Christmas trains.

I guess we'll see if Lionel's marketing predictions come true.

George

I was hoping they would do a couple clever Star Wars scale offerings like they did with the Looney Tunes PS-1 boxcars and tank car. Maybe in volume 2.  

I'm pretty excited for the Star Wars stuff and hope we get some Clone Wars offerings at some point (I need a Captain Rex and Ashoka boxcar) but my biggest issue with the Star Wars sets is how bland they are. It's an RS-3 with two boxcars and a liquid tanker. Granted the RS-3 is boxy enough it could sorta pass for a Star Wars train, but you know what absolutely would? The Phantom, and Lionel still has the Phantom's tooling (at least as of 2016 when they did the Batman Phantom).

Lionel, you do a version of the Star Wars sets with The Phantom as the engine and I will gladly turn to the dark side of the Force.

@Patrick B posted:

I'm pretty excited for the Star Wars stuff and hope we get some Clone Wars offerings at some point (I need a Captain Rex and Ashoka boxcar) but my biggest issue with the Star Wars sets is how bland they are. It's an RS-3 with two boxcars and a liquid tanker. Granted the RS-3 is boxy enough it could sorta pass for a Star Wars train, but you know what absolutely would? The Phantom, and Lionel still has the Phantom's tooling (at least as of 2016 when they did the Batman Phantom).

Lionel, you do a version of the Star Wars sets with The Phantom as the engine and I will gladly turn to the dark side of the Force.

Thanks Patrick, I didn’t want to come off as negative (not that you did!), but I agree. The Star Wars stuff is completely bland and will die an unceremonious death like so many other licensed products…..

The latest Lionel catalog has been released!!  You know what that means!!

^{IT'S TRAINDIESEL TIME!!!}
Any time a new catalog is released or new train announcement is made it feels like Christmas morning all over again!

After viewing the catalog, and then doing it again, the 2025 Volume One catalog is chock full (what is a 'chock' anyway?) of items for just about everybody.  But it seems to be going off in many different directions all over the place. It seems to me that for as much as they crammed into this book there were several holes in it, meaning items they could or should have included for a 125th anniversary edition.  Maybe that will be rectified in volume two.  Maybe I feel that way because maybe I've been in the hobby for so long and have bought a ton of trains during that time that the offerings seem limited to me from having so much.  But at the same time I have a list of past offerings from all the importers a mile long that I still hope to acquire. Plus a half mile long wish list of items I hope to see made at some point.

That said, I do like the catalog and it's offerings.  These are my favorites.  I may get some of them, all of them or none of them.  My pipeline from previous catalogs, announcements and preorders is getting backed up!

Blue Lenny/Santa Handcar (This would look cool running around the Christmas tree or on the main layout during the Holidays. This item matches my criteria for fantasy trains.)

CPKC & Canadian National ES44 (I love the big powerful locomotives like the ES44. My roster lacks any Canadian National locos so this would make a good start.  And a railroad as voluminous and powerful as The Penn American Railroad needs to acquire the latest merger road name!)

Santa Fe & PRR FA-2 ABA (Alco F unit diesels are lacking from my roster also. I don't have anything in the Santa Fe freight scheme and the PRR is, well, PRR!)

Kansas City Southern / Norfolk Southern Autoracks (These are the 'conventional' models.  The Vision Line versions, although innovative, have sounds and actions I've never witnessed while railfanning and seeing hundreds of these cars at speed over the years. I have several of their earlier autoracks and I really like them for the scale size and the kinematic couplers.)

PRR Track Cleaning Car (I don't know if I really need it but it looks like a good item to add to a Maintenance of Way train.  It almost looks authentic. I saw a similar looking powered car once that was spraying for weeds.  I did get a kick out of the Area 51 Evidence Scrubber version  )

Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania Box Car (Although I'm not into most of the fantasy trains, this box car is a must for me since I've visited the museum dozens of times when I lived in the area.  It feels like home!)

Now for my rants!

I'm not going to mention pricing because that has already been highlighted by two or a hundred people. It's like complaining about gas prices.  We bych and moan how expensive gas is but we fill our tanks anyway.  We may cut back a bit but we still fill up. It may not be an even analogy since we don't have to buy trains but we are addicted, ummm, dedicated to model trains. (Don't tell me you're not!!) We all have our limits and some of us choose to ignore them, or not.

But the most impossibly egregious violation of trust and decency in this catalog is the defacing vandalization of the blessed Reading Crusader locomotive.

I've been advocating for a full scale set of this beautiful train for the last ten years.  Nobody has touched this since the semi scaled K-Line and MTH Railking versions years ago.  So what does Lionel do? They put a barely similar paint job on a Pacific!  A Lionchief 2.0 yet! Not a Hudson, not a scale set.  Even in the catalog on page 90 the description of the Lionchief 2.0 Pacifics says "We had some fun with a Reading Crusader stand in" Really!!?? I'm not having any fun with this offering!  They promised me an accurate scale model with matching passenger cars in my imagination!    Sighhh.    At least I'll be saving $3000.  (Oooops!  Did I say that?!  I mean $999!)

I think it is a great catalog that touches a lot of hobbyists desires.  Nice work, Lionel!

Now, all of you, GET OFF OF MY ARTIFICIAL TURF!!!

@Patrick B posted:

Lionel, you do a version of the Star Wars sets with The Phantom as the engine and I will gladly turn to the dark side of the Force.

That's really a good idea! Make Star Wars in line with the Phantom Train, something futuristic. Lionel could do the same thing with Area 51 but ramp it up to creepier, something X Files like.

I am really digging the 2531125 gold plated Commodore Vanderbilt. I missed out on the 100th anniversary gold 4-6-4 and the gold Polar Express from a few years back. It would be nice if they indicated to what karat weight it is being plated.

I also like the Lenny and Santa handcars. I would more likely go with the blue, since I have an orange plus a green version of the Mickey and Minnie car.

Not a fan of the 40 pages of “still available” items. I don’t like the postage stamp presentation of the items. It could be better done.

While this catalog didn't have too much in it for me, I think it's a lot better than most people are lamenting about. I ordered one of the Vision autoracks and two regular ones. Personally I would've preferred just a freight sounds autorack without the Vision price tag, but it'll be nice to add some sounds to my rack train. I've seen a car alarm going off once on a real train but not sure about a full car load. The weathered tunnel motor set is cool but a little early for my modeling era. Still don't understand what justifies the Commodore Vanderbilt Hudson as Vision line though...

@Will Ebbert posted:

Still don't understand what justifies the Commodore Vanderbilt Hudson as Vision line though...

They're going to say that the force coupler is a Visionline only feature. The swinging bell was a misprint.

I would like to get the Denver & Rio Grande Western four-bay open-top hoppers and Autorack on a Trailer Train flatcar.

I am going to get the ENGELHARD 40' tank cars and the Hillsdale County 50' box cars.

I have to get the Grand Trunk Western Autorack on a TTX flat car, even though it is a Vision Line version.

I have to get an L&N Autorack on a Trailer Train flatcar.

I will get the CNW Autorack on a TTX flat car, later if there are any remaining.

Andrew

Take a close look at the Chessie System C&O GP35 diesel engine-electric motor locomotive model. The font used for the road numbers is a later CSX era font.

Will that matter to anyone?

Andrew