Looking for a Lionel 2025 Vol 1 Conversation

@Sparty1225 posted:

Ohh that’s cool.  Does it work on legacy and can you get lights with it to add to most any legacy locomotive? Or more just an option for lights for legacy since there is chuff already  

It's not really for Legacy, but some of the boards for Legacy actually have ground lights in the board software.

Snooze fest.

We are reliving the 1970s to 1980s Lionel of product line. Same old stuff with different paint. For the 125th anniversary I was really expecting a few spectacular new items like a new loco, set and cool accessories.

There were a few items in this catalog that caught my eye.

I've wanted a scale CV Hudson for a long time, as I've thought it would like great pulling my Pride Lines Rail Chief coaches.
Likewise, I missed both the earlier S-2 and Heisler Runs.

The Reading F-3s and return of smaller aluminum passenger cars are a welcome surprise.
Even the Bob Ross stuff and some of the IP related items are pretty cool (If Lionel can work with Mattel, can they work with Hasbro..?)

BUT...........

The prices are frankly just too high. All of the items I listed above, except for probably the Heisler, I could find elsewhere.
Case and point, the CV Hudson can be bought at a lower cost, and even a DC motor conversion may not cost as much. Likewise, the 3rd Rail S-2 pops up somewhat frequently. Converting to command control isn't much more expensive.
The Reading equipment is great, until you realize it is also pretty common from the other manufactures if you look around a bit.

I have to wonder, as Lionel attempts to expand its consumer base, is the cost of adding more and more IPs taking a toll on pricing because of licensing the IPs.

Unrelated, I believe that the K-Line 15" aluminum passenger cars are still probably the best versions of that size car. Road specific details and fairly robust running for each car, and at reasonable prices, even on the secondary market.

Looks like all my shopping will be at York for older stuff, lol.

Steamer prices really jumped.  I can't justify those prices in my budget for a single engine. 

I am wary about 4 Digit addressing in everything when Lionel still has my triplex for 2 months and no word on a fix when I e-mail them on the status.

Even some rolling stock is high.

The one thing I was looking forward to seeing was the LionChief Star Wars set, but very boring set for me.  Could have done all kinds of flats with Star Wars loads.  It all basically boxcars.  Not sure if the movie sounds are in it. 

Nothing for me on this catalog. 

40 pages of in stock merchandise? That says everything you need to know.

I for one am glad to have bought a couple of ES44s for $465 or something the first time they ran heritage units.

The vision line autoracks had potential, but ... a car full of car alarms?

I was really liking the Halloween Vanderbilt until I seen the $1799 price tag. I just cant justify that price for the engine. Im glad I preorder the TW NPC Hudson at the earlier price. That looks to be my big purchase for 2025. If you haven't seen it...you should check it out.

Sunrise

@BBasalik posted:

Likewise, the 3rd Rail S-2 pops up somewhat frequently. Converting to command control isn't much more expensive.

To be fair, and as a 3rd Rail fan . . . you don't want that one.  Preorder the BTO Lionel S2 at a little discount from one of the usual suspects with a warranty and you'll be happier for about the same price w/ an ERR upgrade or maybe a little more.  This new Lionel Legacy S2 is reasonably priced and a decent value IMHO.

I think Lionel is not listening to what people want. I get requests for 027 and O gauge track and switches. People want basic engines that use old-time reversing E units that don't fail like electronic ones. Lion-chief sets are OK for some, but not everybody wants a hand held controller for every engine.

Lionel lives in a bubble.  They think things are going well because they listen selectively.  They hear the customers who are ecstatic about their Halloween Triplex.  But they ignore the customers who want tubular track.

I really like the nightmare before Christmas chasing gondola. Home run on that one. Charlie Brown Christmas aquarium is a good one too.  

the heisler is neat and was looking forward to seeing that released again but was hoping for the screen on top the smoke stack and something closer to 1300 msrp. Also for those that have them how do they run with connecting them and the tether and all that?  Are they troublesome ?

the North Pole Hudson from Trainworld looks like it will be awesome and one of a kind but hesitate because pt tender makes it 072 curves and $1700ish.  

like the autoracks and spiffing them up with sounds.  

Is the price increase on the Base3 to $599 a new thing? I had been seeing MSRP pricing of $499 on Amazon and Train dealer websites before the holidays. Amazon still shows discounted price being marked down from MSRP of $499. I have not checked the train dealer sites recently. Seems like a large jump in price to me.

Middle class America cant afford this book. Ill look to RMT for affordable products.

@jpcommons posted:

Is the price increase on the Base3 to $599 a new thing? I had been seeing MSRP pricing of $499 on Amazon and Train dealer websites before the holidays. Amazon still shows discounted price being marked down from MSRP of $499. I have not checked the train dealer sites recently. Seems like a large jump in price to me.

No, that's new! I just did a look through the previous catalogs and what I found is the 2024 v2 catalog lists the base3 but contains no pricing. However, going as far back as the 2022 and 2023 v1 catalogs the price is listed at $499. Considering there have been so many problems with not very many "solutions" I'm a little soured.

I like some of the names on the auto racks… that’s probably it for me as far as orders go

I acknowledge that it's the collectors that hold the hobby up, while the rest of us budget. buying what we like, be it for display or operations. However, my first impression of the 2025 Vol. 1 catalog is that Lionel has gone a bit rad with a "Commodore Vanderbilt" for every season . Sure enough, the real CV was a landmark design, yet it's also one big beast of a locomotive and not something my imagined version of Santa Claus would commission his North Pole Backshop to build . Nevertheless, I will peruse the pre-order prices for the Halloween version ; if there's a good enough pre-order discount I can foresee placing a pre-order for that monster. The JLC and traditional gray versions are pretty neat, too, and could be quite intimidating pulling Halloween cars - and I mean that in a constructive way. To me, the CV was always a scary-looking engine, as was my dad's 1668 steamer which spent much of it's life in our garage while our Marx UP Diesel Switcher pulled Christmas-duty . It's funny how things from our youth stick with us.

Now, who has the guts to confess they're pre-ordering a Polar Express and/or a North Pole CV? For the consummate Christmas/Holiday Train collector, these could very well be a must-have.

As an economist and as a Lionel fan I find the new catalogue fascinating but not as fascinating as the comments about it. Milton Friedman, monetarist, said that corporations act in accordance with their plans for profitability and not for the benefit of their customers or society. He was really saying, consumers should vote with their dollars. I have. The last several locomotives I purchased from Lionel were defective and I shipped them right back to the dealer. Everyone was unhappy, particularly the dealers because I refused to pay anything for defective merchandise. Do the dealers suffer? Of course they do. Can they get reimbursed from Lionel for shipping? Nope. Caveat Emptor. I would not buy anything from this catalogue on a price/value basis. More importantly, the abysmal quality control has much more to do with my refusal to purchase their products than anything else.

I am a relative expert on inflation, its causes and cures and, in my opinion, inflation and its impact on price levels generally is much misunderstood. It doesn’t really matter, however, because whether Lionel’s production decisions are based upon inflationary factors or its evaluation of the elasticity of its products, Lionel is daring you to purchase at the listed prices. In most cases the product is only manufactured if ordered so Lionel is largely protected. The consumer, less so.

Lionel is responsible to the holding company that owns it and is acting with casual disregard regarding the affordability of its products. My suggestion to anyone who is thinking of purchasing at these prices: Examine carefully your savings and investments. Pensions are disappearing, the economy is not going to sail along as it has been endlessly so consider your savings and investments with great care. Choose your purchases with your family’s welfare in mind. Fortunately, I could pay these prices but it would not be wise. They are not only bad investments (for those of you who want to consider value or resale down the road) but represent a model railroader’s version or Russian Roulette. Will this one work? Bang !

Great catalog.  The Mister Rogers Line seems popular.  The obvious product missing is the Mister Rogers Trolley.  The tinplate Summer Trolley might work for a makeover.  Lionel produced those around 2009 before the MTH Tinplate license agreement.

Nice to see the Turbines.  I will get one as the 3rd time must be the charm.  My 1991 version developed severe paint rash as did many of the Korean sourced locomotives from that decade.  The 2015 release had the defective foam box trays that were all damp.  This one will be the one to get. 

I remember the days when Lionel sold trains and accessories that worked with the trains... now there's so much holiday and licensed 'kitsch' - is all that 'stuff' actually produced? The only item, safe to say, that I may want is a CNJ PS-5 gondola....