Visited there many times.
I visited Madison Hardware one time in the middle 60’s with my dad. We took a Thanksgiving weekend and rode the train from Florence,SC to Pennsylvania Station. On the train trip my dad asked me what I wanted to see in NY as this was my first trip there. My answer was:
The observation deck at the Empire State Building and
Madison Hardware Train shop.
I remember that one and only one key making machine. So much for hardware.LOL.
Leon Butler
@Apples55 posted:105 East 23rd Street… a couple of doors off Park Ave. South - north side of the street.
Thanks!
They were the only place my dad knew that would repair trains. He had his 248 'refreshed' and they rebuilt an R transformer in 1984. I still have both and they work just fine. I remember how overwhelming the store was but the transactions were professional.
We had a great store in the Bronx called Honig's Parkway that had seasonal trains.....which worked for me because trains were seasonal for me at that time.
I "discovered" Madison Hardware from ads in Model Railroader but never ventured there until much older, probably December 1982, and purchased a 6572 Refrigerator car at that time.
Peter
How long did it last in Detroit? Thanks.
@Putnam Division posted:We had a great store in the Bronx called Honig's Parkway that had seasonal trains.....which worked for me because trains were seasonal for me at that time.
I "discovered" Madison Hardware from ads in Model Railroader but never ventured there until much older, probably December 1982, and purchased a 6572 Refrigerator car at that time.
Peter
I remember Honigs Parkway, they had the trains in the back. I live in White Plains and went there a few times for train in the late 70's.
I just missed being able to shop there in person, but I did get a brand new drive chassis thru Mr Kuhn after he purchased it and I met him at a show and we got talking about my dad's ailing 1655 that the studs for the spur gears were worn nearly in half. A few weeks later, one showed up on my parent's doorstep from him to me.(I was in my teens at that time). But many east coast hobby retailers are the same way. To someone from the midwest, it comes off as direct to the point of being rude, all business and no small talk if they dont know you personally. Trainworld can be this way to this very day when one calls on the phone and is not from the east coast. I do wish I could have met the guys at Madison. I love soaking up the stories & knowledge like a sponge. Mike
It was early December, 1950, we lived in Brooklyn. My brother and I told my parents we wanted Lionel trains for Christmas. My father, who worked in Manhattan, told my mother he saw a train store on 23rd St and there was a subway stop right outside the store. One day, my mother took my brother and I on the Sea Beach subway and we ended up at the station outside Madison Harware. If you ever saw Angela Trotta's Madison Hardware painting, that's what we looked like the first time I went to Madison Hardware.
Shoirtly after that Christmas, we moved out to Long Island, only two blocks away from a Train Store. Jump to the 1970s, early 1980s, I drove a truck for NY Telephone. This gave me the opportunity to stop by Madison Hardware at least oncea week to look at the trains and to have keys made. I did buy one engine, a used GG1 and a few passenger cars to go along with th GG1. Before Madison Hardware closed, I got a promotion to an office job and never again made it back to Madison Hardware. I was so sorry to see that my local train store closed along with Madison Hardware.
Shopped there remotely, but if there was a part needed or a special car for someone, you could almost always find it from them … and there service to tough questions were always dedicated to customer satisfaction.
Fond memories of the yesteryear of our hobby.
-Ken
Just once, ironically looking for a Tyco Spirit of ‘76 set in 1974 during a broad post-Christmas search through Manhattan train shops. Unsurprisingly, that’s not something the store stocked, but the set was sold out everywhere else.
Madison Hardware.... OMG, I could write a book about them!
OH, wait - someone already did ! !
In 2016, Derek Thomas, in collaboration with the late Lionel LLC owner Dick Kughn [who purchased the New York store back in 1989] wrote THE definitive book about Madison and those two famous brothers with the different last names! I was privileged - along with several of my colleagues who were "regulars" at the store - to write a chapter for the book. Unfortunately, the book is out of print now, but if you can find one on the used market, it's well worth it, as there is a wealth of information, pictures, and stories about the most famous of all the Lionel Service Stations!
If you're at all curious about the renowned N.Y. store which was affectionally known as [but was not really] "Lionel Service Station #1 -this book is for you.
MADISON owner Lou Shur and his brother Carl Shaw, both very good friends with Lionel Corporation founder Joshua L. Cowen, certainly left their indelible mark on the model train business. I did a lot of paintwork for them over the years, and my association with the store and it's friends and associates - many of whom were former Lionel Corp. employees - enriched my knowledge about Lionel Trains tremendously.
Best wishes to all
Len Carparelli
L & L Model Train Restoration Co.
Both my grandfathers and father would take my brother to the shop, not very often, but when we went, we always came home with something for the layout. The layout was made of two 4 by 8 pieces of plywood that was in the basement. Those were good ole days, Grandpa Martine, Everts, Dad, my brother Steve and me.
@Len Carparelli posted:Madison Hardware.... OMG, I could write a book about them!
OH, wait - someone already did ! !
In 2016, Derek Thomas, in collaboration with the late Lionel LLC owner Dick Kughn [who purchased the New York store back in 1989] wrote THE definitive book about Madison and those two famous brothers with the different last names! I was privileged - along with several of my colleagues who were "regulars" at the store - to write a chapter for the book. Unfortunately, the book is out of print now, but if you can find one on the used market, it's well worth it, as there is a wealth of information, pictures, and stories about the most famous of all the Lionel Service Stations!
If you're at all curious about the renowned N.Y. store which was affectionally known as [but was not really] "Lionel Service Station #1 -this book is for you.
MADISON owner Lou Shur and his brother Carl Shaw, both very good friends with Lionel Corporation founder Joshua L. Cowen, certainly left their indelible mark on the model train business. I did a lot of paintwork for them over the years, and my association with the store and it's friends and associates - many of whom were former Lionel Corp. employees - enriched my knowledge about Lionel Trains tremendously.
Best wishes to all
Len Carparelli
L & L Model Train Restoration Co.
Hi Len....good to hear from you,hope all is well...I had a paragraph or two in Derek's book...cheers,joe
Madison Hardware will be one of many stores that got away from me forever.
I had the TM video Toy Train Revue no. 1 where they documented the Summer 1989 move of it from Detroit with Chuck Leibrock when I was 3. I was born too late to experience it in New York, and I didn't get my drivers license until long after the new Detroit location shut down. I would've loved to see it in either location at least once just to see what the hype was since it's now up there in almost mythical status of classic Lionel train lore.
Going to MADISON HARDWARE was an acquired taste, like hot pickles from Essex street,you ether liked it or not 
I visited Madison Hardware many times in the 70’s - early 90’s and I must agree with Joe - it was an acquired taste (and I definitely acquired it). I went to Baruch College down 23rd St. from Madison Hardware, and then went to work four blocks away, so I was a regular visitor.
My first two GG1’s came from Madison Hardware. I got my love of trains from my mother and she loved trains from taking trains every summer from Brooklyn to Asbury Park down on the shore or to camp in the Poconos - her favorite engine was the GG1. As most mothers in those days (the 1950’s), she was a housewife (with two young kids!!!) so she was really couldn’t afford to purchase a Lionel GG1, although both my brother and I did get Lionel sets when we were old enough to run them ourselves. But when I was in college, she was able to give me an MPC 8753 as a Christmas present. It pulled eight aluminum 15” passenger cars without breaking a sweat!!!
When I got my first (and only) full time job, I decided to repay my mother’s favor and purchased a NOS 2360 as a Christmas present from Madison Hardware. After she passed, it came back to me. Unfortunately, over the years, the paint on one nose started to flake rather badly, so, due to its sentimental value to me, I sent it off to Len Carparelli for some work. I just got it back this week - so timely for this thread. Len did an amazing job - the engine looks like it just came out of the factory in Irvington!!!
One thing I will never forget about Madison… whenever I spoke to Lou behind the counter, he would always ask “how’s mama”!!!
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Paul - thank you so much for the kind words- it was a pleasure to work with you.
Sincerely, '
Len Carparelli
L & L Model Train Restoration Co,
My first ZW, a Christmas present, came from them in 1958. I even knew about them all the way down in Biloxi MS. j
Absolutely. Growing up in the Bronx of New York City, it was the only known source for Lionel trains. As a youngster my Grandmother used to take me there until I was old enough to trek there on my own. What a magical place!!!😊
Through my association with Madison Hardware, I met and became friends with a number of former Lionel employees - Frank Pettit, Jack Kindler, Vince Cardinale, Lennie Dean, among others - all of whom frequented the store at one point or another. Unquestionably, a wonderful time and wonderful memories that I will never forget.
-Len Carparelli
L&L Model Train Restoration Co.
@Len Carparelli posted:Paul - thank you so much for the kind words- it was a pleasure to work with you.
Sincerely, '
Len Carparelli
L & L Model Train Restoration Co,
Lenny,thanks for all the work you've done for me.....joe
I worked in Grand Central Terminal and would go there in my railway uniform during lunch sometimes. I was always treated harshly and rudely. The last time I was there was in the mid-eighties. I wanted to purchase a Tuscan GG1 and Had the cash in my pocket. When I asked to buy the locomotive one of the brothers, I never knew the difference between them, said "No you do not want to buy anything" And walked me to the door. That was my last time there. That was 40 years ago and this whole time I just assumed they had something against the railroad I worked for , which was Amtrak. I am actually saddened to hear that he treated many people that way. ( For a period of time Amtrak had trains out of both grand central and penn station in new york city , Of course now it is only Penn Station )
@Mikado 4501 posted:Madison Hardware will be one of many stores that got away from me forever.
I had the TM video Toy Train Revue no. 1 where they documented the Summer 1989 move of it from Detroit with Chuck Leibrock when I was 3.
I wanted to lead into my reply here with mentioning this specific Toy Train Review. The interview with Chuck is what set the whole chain of events into motion that finally got the Madison Hardware Story written. In the interview Chuck mentions the move being photo documented so that the store could be somewhat put back together in Detroit. I saw this interview a few months before I would sit down to interview Dick Kughn at his house as part of a special event for the LCCA and for my podcast Notch 6.
After we finished the Notch 6 and the mic was turned off, I remembered that I wanted to ask Dick specifically about the photos from the move. He recalled that he still had them and he would dig them up for me. That was in October. I got a call in early December from his secretary letting me know that FIFTEEN bankers boxes of photos were waiting for me. The rest they say is history.
Personally I'm not sure what Lou or Carl would have thought of me. I think they would have scoffed at the notion that someone wanted to write a book about them, and I'm not sure I would have been given the time of day either. One thing that still sticks out to me is that when I started writing the book, I assumed it would be about all of the wonderful Lionel treasures that would have been in the store, but as I learned, it became a book about two brothers who's business acumen and sometimes very different personalities created their own little legend within our hobby.
Thank you to EVERYONE who is contributing to this thread. As long as people are still talking about Madison Hardware, it will never truly die. It's nice to see so many friends in here and also hear fond (and not so fond) memories of Lou, Carl, and my friend Dick.
Derek's tireless work in editing, writing and negotiating THE definitive book about Madison Hardware stands alone in it's excellence. I was proud to write a chapter for it, but a much clearer picture about the store and those two often cantankerous brothers emerged from Derek's efforts, along with the efforts of my many fellow co-writers of the book, all the while dispelling a lot of the "Madison myths" that abounded throughout the years.
Sigwally, believe me when I tell you you are not alone in the poor treatment you received when you entered the store. In Derek's book, I recount a tale of how an irate Carl, for no real apparent reason, was downright nasty to a fellow who was about to purchase a mint, boxed #2245 Texas Special for several hundred dollars - back then, in 1980 or 1981! The poor fellow was so flabbergasted at being so verbally abused, he simply put his head down and exited the store as fast as he could!
Over lunch one afternoon, Carl related to me the story about how he forcefully (well, as forcefully as an 85 year old man could) threw Geraldo Rivera out of the store - and this is when Geraldo planned to do a TV special about the store and it's longevity in New York. Apparently, Mr. Rivera also must've said something that ticked Carl off- big time. Carl, of course, felt self-righteously indignant and completely justified in his actions!
And yet, on other days these two could be the sweetest guys in the world.
But their most intense vitriol was most often reserved for each other, as the two brothers would fight daily - with Carl often storming out of the store for hours at a time, usually nursing his sorrows - and a drink or maybe a few- at the local watering hole down the street.
Several of my fellow writers also attest to, and elaborate on all this in Derek's book. The two brothers' most unusual and inscrutable personalities only add to the mystique of the store and its close connections to the Lionel Corporation and it's Founder, J.L. Cowen.
-Len Carparelli
L&L Model Train Restoration Co.
Thank you Len. I Really have mixed emotions about all this. On one hand I am relieved they weren't upset at me personally or at amtrak that I worked for, But as I had mentioned before , I am saddened by the fact that they were so mean spirited to many people that did frequent their store. I do have one keepsake , though from them, An orange sticker with all their info attached to the inside of the cab of my 2037 steamer that I've had since a child. They did a lube and tune for me after one of my first visits there.
Sigwally, certainly those two "brothers with the different last names" were truly an enigma...one never knew "which" Carl or Lou you might encounter on any given day! Apparently, you really encountered their "Dark Side" on that day!
That being said, I always had a very cordial relationship with them, but my situation was somewhat different than most, as I was never a customer of theirs - but rather the other way around! They were MY customers! I would be in the store regularly, at least twice a month, dropping off or picking up merchandise that needed painting. Almost every time I went in, Carl and I would have lunch, as Carl would invariably bemoan to me about his sorry lot in life.
"Still a prisoner, Lenny" was his favorite response whenever I asked "how ya doin'".
Although I am no psychiatrist - far from it - I surmised that Carl was frustrated with his position at Madison, as he never really liked toy trains. He was in show business for much of his early years, and when the money dried up, he was forced to get out - that's when Lou hired him to work at the store. Carl was beholden to Lou which I'm sure only added to his bitterness and vexation. In addition, he was greatly disheartened when the clientele of the store changed from fathers and their children to adult collectors. Now add to that, his advanced age, so it's not too surprising that he was quite prone to mood swings.
Lou, on the other hand, loved working in the store and loved toy trains. He thoroughly enjoyed selling, and considered Lionel Corporation founder, Mr. Cowen, a father figure. But his exasperation with Carl - who often displayed his complete indifference to the store and its products, would often overflow into their near-daily verbal altercations, as well as attribute to Lou's rather gruff and abrupt demeanor at times.
Lou expected Carl to exhibit the same enthusiasm toward the business that he had, and of course, Carl never did. Adding fuel to the fire, Lou never let Carl forget that he pretty much owned him, as Carl would probably be out on the street without Lou. After all, who would hire an 80+ year old man? Carl never had a monetary share in the store -Lou owned it lock, stock and barrel.
But their place in the history of Lionel Trains is assured - and they really helped make it a fascinating story.
And hey, Derek - time to write a sequel to "The Madison Hardware Story! If you do, I'm in!
Len Carparelli
L & L Model Train Restoration Co.
You know.....I'm not sure that I've heard more excuses for two people who apparently treated LOTS of other people rudely and with lack of respect or appreciation....regardless of their background.
I never purchased from them. I don't miss them. I do not understand the hype around them, other than a very impressive stash of postwar parts.
I think we need to keep in mind that Madison Hardware was in operation on 23rd Street for 80 years - not many train stores can touch that longevity!!! And you don’t stay in business that long by chasing customers out of the store. Did it happen??? Obviously. Was it an everyday practice??? Obviously not. I was never treated rudely during my many visits (and I wasn’t a big spender in those days). I learned early on to be patient when I went to buy something. It tended to be crowded (even without all the clutter, there wasn’t a lot of room inside) and, if you waited your turn, you’d be taken care of. Of course, being in New York City, you’d get a lot of impatient New Yorkers and that attitude didn’t go over well.
I think their longevity was partially due to their geographic proximity to the Lionel Factory in NJ, their presumably large customer base in NYC, and their relationship with the Cowan Family.
I don't think they would be holding a Master Class in "how to treat customers".
Regarding excuses, I taught my students that there are reasons and excuses, and you need to know the difference! TEST TIME: "I knew the deadline, but I left the assignment on the back seat of my ride's car" is a/an . . . ?
One of the good things about going to Madison Hardware was that it was a short walk to the Lionel Showroom, and the A C Gilbert Hall of Science Earl G.
Yes, bought a Canadian National Alco and their version of the 6572 reefer by mail order, called several times to inquire about parts, first time I visited it was like why are you here, but the next time I went in with a specific list of parts, including for the electronic set I was treated very well.
I only went to Madison Hardware for a repair one time. The horn on my brother’s first train (of which I am now the caretaker), a Jersey Central 621 switcher, NEVER worked no matter what we tried. My parents tried to get it repaired once with no luck. So, sometime in the early 80’s, I decided to try taking it to Madison. I went to the back and explained to Lou what I needed and he called for Joey, their resident repair wizard - a quiet, if greasy, gentleman!!! I told Joey the problem, he looked at the engine, and he invited me back into his “workshop”. If you thought the store was crowded, his little repair shop was absolutely claustrophobic!!! He popped the shell off, took one look, and said “it’s wired wrong”. He gave me a receipt and said give him a couple of days. I went back a week later and for the first time in probably 25 years, the horn worked!!!
I went a bunch of times with my Pop when I was growing up in Brooklyn. We took his postwar trains there for repairs a few times and we'd stop in to get the super-O track clips that always seemed to get lost. For my 10th birthday, my Pop took me to Madison to get a train set of my own. All we had were freight sets, so I really wanted the Amtrak set that was out in 1988. Madison was out of stock of the Amtrak set, so we wound up getting the PRR 027 Alcos & the 5 passenger cars. I actually just bought that Amtrak set I wanted when I was 10 about 2 weeks ago. 
I'd go once and if they treated me well, return. If they couldn't be bothered then neither can I.
I laugh when I see the Angela Trotta Thomas painting with happy children coming out the front door.
My apartment mailbox key was difficult to get copied. I would get it done at Madison and sneak a look around the place before being shown the door.
That's Hilarious!
An excellent observation.....but absolutely hilarious.
I also wrote a chapter in the Madison Hardware book "its a fake", is the chapter. My father and I used to go there a few times a year. He did not either one of the brothers. I personally liked Carl, I thought he was funny. Lou was very quiet and did not say much. But as I state in my chapter, I watched Carl rip a guy off and as a 13 year old kid in 1983 there was not much I could say. I bought many trains there and still have most of them. I always felt they were nice to us as my old man was a banker, for Citibank, and they respected that. We never left with the purchases. We would pay and my father would send a messenger down to pick them up, it was a New York thing.
