Marx 333 - tender compatibility?

Hello, There shouldn't be any particular need to look for the rather hard-to-find diecast tender.  Any Marx tender should work here; in fact I've pulled Lionel tenders behind mine sometimes.  Maybe there is a problem with your engine's drawbar.  Does it swing easily?  Did someone perhaps make one?

Good to hear that I shouldn't have to run out and buy a new tender.  The draw bar / coupler on the locomotive looks good. It's original and swings easy - it just was hitting the side of the loco on turns..    I'm not sure if I tried a tender with lower scale trucks or not.  I'll give it another try tonight.

 

Can anybody point me toward a solid reference for Marx Trains? I've been collecting Marx for years and years and I don't know what the type B or D trucks are nor do I know how to tell date anything.

 

My Marx 333  says MARX and it smokes - it says Marx on the side and it does have a traction tire on it...  is it a possibility that it isn't original?

I use a Lionel tender when I run this loco on my layout, as I need it for the coupler...

 

 

 

 

No traction tires...

 

 

The 333. 

 

Your 333 is original all right.  The green marker lights and the "333" give it away.  The K-Line version is a pretty faithful remake (it has to have been made from the Marx mold) but other changes are that there is no Marx logo beneath the smokestack, roller pickups instead of the 1-piece copper slider, and that thing in front of the smokestack that looks like a miniature smokestack (I don't know what it would be on a real loco) is chrome.  How yours got a traction tire I don't know, but you never say never or always with Marx!

 

Here is a pic of the Marx truck types taken from Robert Grossman's catalog.  His website is trainpartsformarx.com, in case you are unfamiliar with it.

 

The most complete Marx data I know of will be found in the Greenberg's Guides to Marx Trains.  Volume I, which is the one that covers steam, was published in 1989.  Volume II was put out in 1990.  They both come up on Amazon and flea-bay, and command $70-90 usually.  There is also somebody who has a digital disc out if you favor that format.  Perhaps someone else will chime in with the info on that.

CentralFan197, I meant to mention - that Lionel tender looks fantastic with Ole 333!  Is that the one that comes with the 4-4-2 NYC Flyer starter set?

CentralFan - I love that tender with the 333. 

 

TrainsRMe - Thanks for the info and photo!  I got a copy of 'Greenberg's Pocket Price Guide Marx Trains' years ago...  not sure where it got buried at..    http://www.amazon.com/Greenber...Trains/dp/0897782941

 

 

I'll post more photos when I take another stab at running the train.

 

 

Many, if not most, of the 333's came with the plastic 3/16" tender and scale wheels. This is usually lettered for southern pacific, but sometimes lettered for Allstate. It's basically the same size and shape as the tender on an American Flyer S gauge Hudson, but half an inch shorter.

 

These plastic tenders are relatively easy to find.

 

I have also seen 333's in sets with wedge tenders with scale wheels, like the one on the right in Overland Flyer's picture.

 

Thanks! I'm pretty sure I didn't try my B truck tender.   I did try one with D!

Yep, gotcha.  No confusion at all. The original poster's having a traction tire on his 333 is what surprised me.  Maybe some enterprising hobbyist turned down a wheel and installed a tire.  The K-Line version is quite a stump puller, and I fully agree that 333 would be better with one.  I like the fact that K-Line has an actual tread on the tire (like an auto).  It really seems to make a difference in pulling.

 

Thanks very much for the information on the mini-stack.

 

Your shot of the two wedge tenders does show how a 'D'-truck tender drawbar could raise up the engine's drawbar enough to maybe strike the engine's side in a curve, as he mentioned.

 

For interest, here's a shot of another tender I use with my 333.  I have the plastic tender RoyBoy mentioned above, and wanted something a little 'beefier' looking.  This is a Lionel Scout tin tender with trucks made from Lionel, American Flyer and Marx parts.

TrainsRMe - That's a pretty tender!

 

 

Maybe I was dreaming when I saw a traction wheel.   In addition to itching for some time with the 333, I'm anxiously awaiting a chance to line up all of my tenders for truck and coupler comparison :-)

 

 

Thank you everyone for the help so far.  I'll keep everyone updated as I progress with the 333.

I also have a smoking Marx 333 with a traction tire and a non-smoking Marx 333 without a traction tire.  I really don't now if the traction tire was added to the smoker after the fact or not.  Original or not it is a smooth running engine as is the non-smoker.

OKHIKER:

Glad to hear you're in the same boat! Maybe our 333's have some sort of bonus collectors value due to the wheel?    I know for sure I've seen at least two with them on ebay in the last month with it and I stumbled upon another one for sale elsewhere with it.

never seen a 333 with a tire. I either use a Wedge Tender, or ltely i've been using a plastic Allstate tender.

I want that nickel faced CV!

I didn't have much time to play, but I did manage to snag a few photos and run a quick test.  I lined up some tenders and found the lowest one which happened to be a b-truck. The couplers kinda bonks into the side of the train body. Sometimes the truck does too. The bar is a bit twisted - likely either a cause or an effect of the issue.    I'm curious as to if the body of the loco is running a bit low too.

 

 

 

Checking out tenders:

 

 

 

 

 

here's the problem in action. Sometimes the rear truck on the loco picks up too.

 

 

 

 

Hmm.. wonder if this coupler arm has anything to do with the problem..  haven't bent it back into shape yet..

 

 

 the traction wheel:

 

 

 

bonus shot of the CV for Steamer:

 

 

thanks for the pic!

yeah that bent arm could be your problem. Unless there is a grove under that tire, it doesn't belong there. 

 

Hey Marxed...I'm pretty sure I have an Allstate plastic tender you can have if you want it and will pay postage. Let me know and I'll check on it...

that's why we have you here Steve!

I have a Marx 333 with diecast tender that had problems on O27 curves. Problem number 1, the driver flanges were somewhat rough, the loco acted like it was binding in the curve, so I turned them smooth with a file. Problem number 2, the loco drawbar did not have enough swing, it would hit the side of the loco chassis under the cab and sometimes derail the tender on an O27 curve. Not sure if it was the original drawbar. I made a different drawbar that was low enough to swing under the side of the loco on a curve, with the coupling tab pointing up (I have to place the tender drawbar slot over the loco drawbar tab). Now it runs fine on the sharp curves.

 

Yes, the diecast tenders are really heavy, but if the axles are polished and oiled they roll OK and they aren't that much drag, except on steep grades.

 

I've sometimes run into Marx couplers that needed their height adjusted to work well with others of their type, or possibly needed other particulars tweaked. For example, the uncoupling shoes for 'scissors' couplers bump on Lionel switches, so I trim them shorter for clearance.

Another issue with 333's is the flange diameter on the pilot trucks. Earlier ones had smaller flanges that would jump the track on tight turns or any track flaw. Later ones had a larger diameter flange. Also the repro's are based on the K-Line which used the larger flange and make a good retrofit for early ones.

 

Steve

Thanks all for the knowledge and friendly responses!   It's looking like it shouldn't be too hard to get rolling. 

 

For having so many wheels, the 333 goes over my old switches and uneven track way better than I could have ever imagined.  I'm going to need to find an 0-scale trophy for it :-)