Mobilgas Tank Cars

oscaletrains posted:

Just out of curiousity, has anyone actualy seen a real photo of a real tank car with the red flying Pegasus on it?

Unfortunately no photographic evidence has ever surfaced to indicate Mobilgas cars were painted with the Pegasus logo.

There were a number of discussions on Steam Era Freight Cars and experts up to and including the late Richard Hendrickson had uncovered no evidence of any cars being painted as such. 

Protocraft does offer a set of Mobilgas decals in black and white (SVX-1) which accurately letter a red AC&F tank car.

That's what I thought.  Looking through old Walthers and Champ decal booklets of decades gone by you would think that the decals listed back then would be pretty much correct, since after all, the people making them would have been around to see the real cars or know others who had or whatever, but in reality, I now tend to suspect that fantasy decal sets were probably made up and offered for sale along with the ones that were prototypical...?

Rule292 posted:

oscaletrains posted:

Just out of curiousity, has anyone actualy seen a real photo of a real tank car with the red flying Pegasus on it?

Unfortunately no photographic evidence has ever surfaced to indicate Mobilgas cars were painted with the Pegasus logo.

In the same vein, I have not been able to locate any prototype photo's of a green Sinclair tank car with the Dinosaur logo on it.  Plenty of model photo's, but no prototype photo's.

Rusty

Indeed.  But then again, we obviously do not have a historic photo of every single tank car that ever existed.

And also, not that there are not already untold numbers of O Scale rolling stock that is incorrectly painted(Atlas comes to mind) when they take a certain model car and paint it for every railroad there was, even when that road did not actually have that particular car, but that is a whole other can o worms.

SCALE 2 RAIL FORUM

I have a fairly thick book on tank cars. IF (note the capital letters) I can dig it up, I'll see what is there. If you like the flying horses and oil-a-saurus, I don't think the prototype police will give you more than 20 or 30 years. Sometimes I think the need for absolute prototypical perfection gets in the way of "enjoyment". Don't get me wrong,I'm not advocating a freight double headed by Thomas the Tank Engine and the Hogwarts express, but it never will be and doesn't have to be absolutely perfect.

Simon

Good point

I agree with everything said here yeh, Simon makes sense again!

Sooooo.. there are four really nice Atlas Mobilgas 2-rail tankers (no pegasus) on the bay at the moment I'd buy them myself but I just bought a locomotive off one of the OGR listed advertisers so that's my budget gone for a couple of weeks.   I will buy a couple another day when I'm flush again I like em.  Roo.

Roo posted:

I agree with everything said here yeh, Simon makes sense again!

Sooooo.. there are four really nice Atlas Mobilgas 2-rail tankers (no pegasus) on the bay at the moment I'd buy them myself but I just bought a locomotive off one of the OGR listed advertisers so that's my budget gone for a couple of weeks.   I will buy a couple another day when I'm flush again I like em.  Roo.

Silver with red lettering. I have seen B&W photos of the older dark cars(red probably) with black outlined white or maybe silver lettering.  I have seen B&W photos of dark cars(black probably but maybe red) with bold light colored(probably white) lettering. But I have yet to see a B&W photo of a Mobilgas tank car painted light with dark lettering, flying horses or not. Frankly, I view ANYTHING Atlas paints with a large amount of skepticism.

Oops, found one...

Oh, hot digs! I am a tank car freak, and about to apply special white Mobilgas decals on a newly built Lobaugh tank.  Long story - later.

Another long story - just got back from Big Spring, rescuing a friend with an alternator problem.  I forgot to write down where I saw it, but somewhere out there is a real double track dogbone layout.  Lordsburg has a genuine oval with some extra diagonal track, but I have seen lots of prototype ovals - never before a dogbone.

Oh - and Simon, if you find it, give us a cite.  I would love to add a tank car book to my library.

oscaletrains posted:

Roo posted:

I agree with everything said here yeh, Simon makes sense again!

Sooooo.. there are four really nice Atlas Mobilgas 2-rail tankers (no pegasus) on the bay at the moment I'd buy them myself but I just bought a locomotive off one of the OGR listed advertisers so that's my budget gone for a couple of weeks.   I will buy a couple another day when I'm flush again I like em.  Roo.

Silver with red lettering. I have seen B&W photos of the older dark cars(red probably) with black outlined white or maybe silver lettering.  I have seen B&W photos of dark cars(black probably but maybe red) with bold light colored(probably white) lettering. But I have yet to see a B&W photo of a Mobilgas tank car painted light with dark lettering, flying horses or not. Frankly, I view ANYTHING Atlas paints with a large amount of skepticism.

You would probably know more than me, and not debating you, but I always thought that in the early days of their modern freight car line (not back in the 70's) Atlas advertised that all their paint schemes were authentic has that now gone out the door and anything goes? Roo.

oscaletrains posted:

Oops, found one...

 

Beautiful.  The beauty of internet discussions!     

There were some neat late 60's and 70's freight cars and paint jobs and that  is one of them.   I have to look but I think that picture is in the softbound Henderson "Classic Freight Cars, Tank Cars Volume 2" book.   Forgot all about it since it's beyond my modeling era.

Not too many colorful tank cars in the steam era that I model.   I did take the liberty and procure one of the WA Drake 6000 gallon  two compartment "two dome" tank cars in Cities Service emerald green even though there isn't much evidence that there were green Cities Service tank cars and the evidence that does exist points to a two compartment 4,000 gallon car.  

Bob,    Try  ronsbooks.com  (letters are lower case) I think the one I got is by Edward Kaminski

Tank Cars American Car and Foundry 1865 to 1955 Hardcover 272 pages 514 photos $60.50 free shipping

Just search on the word:     Kaminski

Simon

Thank you!  I love their books - I shall get one!  They do great SP books.

Rule292 posted:

Not too many colorful tank cars in the steam era that I model.   I did take the liberty and procure one of the WA Drake 6000 gallon  two compartment "two dome" tank cars in Cities Service emerald green even though there isn't much evidence that there were green Cities Service tank cars and the evidence that does exist points to a two compartment 4,000 gallon car.  

Champion Oil/Sterling Fuels was a nice shade of green. At least one of those was done in the Hobbyhill run. I've seen an image of an actual car on the Net. That car was a single dome 8,000 gallon job, as was the Hobbyhill version.

Simon

I guess for me it is a matter of how bad it rubs me the wrong way.  Like, a model tank car painted Mobilgas with flying horses doesn't bother me near as much as say, a wagontop boxcar painted and lettered Northern Pacific or ATSF would.

Roo posted:

oscaletrains posted:

Roo posted:

I agree with everything said here yeh, Simon makes sense again!

Sooooo.. there are four really nice Atlas Mobilgas 2-rail tankers (no pegasus) on the bay at the moment I'd buy them myself but I just bought a locomotive off one of the OGR listed advertisers so that's my budget gone for a couple of weeks.   I will buy a couple another day when I'm flush again I like em.  Roo.

Silver with red lettering. I have seen B&W photos of the older dark cars(red probably) with black outlined white or maybe silver lettering.  I have seen B&W photos of dark cars(black probably but maybe red) with bold light colored(probably white) lettering. But I have yet to see a B&W photo of a Mobilgas tank car painted light with dark lettering, flying horses or not. Frankly, I view ANYTHING Atlas paints with a large amount of skepticism.

You would probably know more than me, and not debating you, but I always thought that in the early days of their modern freight car line (not back in the 70's) Atlas advertised that all their paint schemes were authentic has that now gone out the door and anything goes? Roo.

A good example, they make 40' reefers. But painting them orange and lettering for SFRD does not make them correct for any reefer the Santa Fe ever had. Those all had a 5' side door opening rather than the normal opening width of other reefers. I certainly understand that they can SELL them and make money doing it, and lots of people will buy them and not really care one way or the other, but it rubs me the wrong way for some reason when they pass off cars painted up like that without being up front about it.

I never cared for the wide doors, but like the ATSF reefer paint scheme.  I wouldn't hesitate to repaint an Athearn or All Nation.

I think some things at Atlas passed on with Jim Weaver. Some of the fantasy colors are driven by the 3 rail side. If the car is correct, it can always be repainted if it totally offends....or just don't buy it if you're not sure.

Simon

Back to Mobilgas:  I sold my one prewar Lobaugh to Art Hayes, but saved photos.  It was easily my favorite tank car, and Art only got it by offering about five times what it was worth.  We are pretty sure it was a catalog photo model, since their tendency was to letter such things one side only.  Note white with black outline - we think that most Mobilgas cars were silver with black outline, which is also attractive.

Art and I are now in possession of white and black decals to duplicate Lobaugh appearance - we are reproducing models, not real tank cars.  Here is the Lobaugh:

And here is a postwar Lobaugh in silver:

I like the white better.

Now an iPad shot of a 1950s Lobaugh kit about to get decals.  Note the pleasing Scarlet color - Duplicolor Flame Red PR 4.  As close as I could come to the 1939 red.

More info than most of you need - three versions of Lobaugh tanks, and at least three lengths and diameters.  Prewar were tubes with rivets on ends only, and sand cast bolster ends.  Postwar were rivetless tanks, built-up brass ends. And finally, 1950s versions are wrapped riveted sheets.

All versions need a riveted apron under each dome - up to the builder, and seldom done.

I have a number of unbuilt Lobaugh tankers, good info to have.  Aprons should be easy these days with Archer rivets, primer the car, apply Archer decal rivets, paint and decal as usual.

I make the aprons out of .020 brass.  Looks pretty good.  Photo when I get the decals on.

bob2 - there can never be enough information :-) thanks for sharing

I have a number of unbuilt Lobaugh tankers, good info to have. 

I have three - two of them are pre-war 10000 gal triple dome, complete with decals, but no trucks.  I would trade one of them for most of the pieces of a 12,000 gal prewar tank.  I would trade the other for a 16,200 gal tank.  One has Shell decals, the other Deep Rock.  I'd happily pay shipping both ways.

As above, you can tell the pre-wars - a row of rivets at each end, and no other rivet details.  the 16,200 tank is a bit unusual - photo below.  I did not identify it as Lobaugh at first - but it is in the 1937 catalog!  Graceline trucks - I ought to fix that.

Oh - the 10,000 gal tanks are 1 3/4" dia, and longer than the others.  The 12,000 gal tanks are 2", and the 16,200 gal tanks are 2 1/4" dia.  All are 22 ga. brass tube.

bob2 posted:

As above, you can tell the pre-wars - a row of rivets at each end, and no other rivet details.  the 16,200 tank is a bit unusual - photo below.  I did not identify it as Lobaugh at first - but it is in the 1937 catalog!  Graceline trucks - I ought to fix that.

 

Just curious....what is the diameter of the tank and the length of the car, above in inches please?

Thanks!

Simon

bob2 posted:

 ...snip... the other Deep Rock ...snip... 

Please post a photo of that, Deep Rock is one of my favorite tanker names. TIA

Simon - that is a 2 1/4" diameter tank.  It is at the airport, so I shall have to measure the length tomorrow.  I think it is under 7".

Dave - sure.  I have several.  Have you ever heard of the "Deep Rock doctrine?"

bob2 posted:

Dave - sure.  I have several.  Have you ever heard of the "Deep Rock doctrine?"

No, I have not.

In 1939, in a Supreme Court case involving Deep Rock, it was determined that a shareholder making "loans" to an undercapitalized corporation would be after all other creditors when the time came for paying folks back.  So now on to more fun things:  The one on the left went to "Maroon" of MTJ fame.  It is one of those International deals, last sold for $600.  Worth $35.  The one on the right is post-war Lobaugh, and I promise, I had nothing to do with the decals.  They should have been applied over glossy paint.  Someday, a re-do.

I think I have others - will look tomorrow.

bob2 posted:

The one on the left went to "Maroon" of MTJ fame.  It is one of those International deals, last sold for $600.  Worth $35.  The one on the right is post-war Lobaugh, and I promise, I had nothing to do with the decals.  They should have been applied over glossy paint.  Someday, a re-do.

I think I have others - will look tomorrow.

Thank you. Some years back I had a friend decal six Weaver modern tankers in the Deep Rock; they looked great but unfortunately I have not seen them in years. They got packed away before my previous move.

Bob,

On the single dome car, are the supports for the tank leaning to the left?

Simon

They might be.  I will have to look at the actual car.  They are simple castings, soldered to a formed sheet metal bolster pair; symmetry not guaranteed.  I personally don't build many freight cars - I have built just enough Lobaugh cars to prove to myself that I can do it.

Thanks for ID ing that Red Bob, that will same me some trouble in experimentation.  I'll practice on some old tinplate 2654 cars I have..

What is a good match for the Yellow on the Shell tank cars?