Modern Lionel 072 switches

I cannot specifically answer your question but the issues with the modern O72 switches have been discussed extensively on this forum so you can search for them and maybe it was discussed or other ideas were presented. The differences between the prewar switches and those from the modern era are astounding. IMHO, the switches you have are significantly better than the those produced in the late 90's until current day.

Mike

I don't know about the 072 switches being made recently but the 031 switches(6-23010 & 23011)are really terrible. That's why I went over to Gargraves switches and track in the late 1990's, better performing switches. With Gargraves switches I didn't have to repair them weekly.

Lionel's post war switches were made really well and lasted over 60 years and a lot are still working today. How well will their new switches compare? Time will answer!

Lee Fritz

The original 711 switches were engineered and built to near perfection, especially for a toy that was first marketed over 80 years ago. Every iteration since the modern era reintroduction has been compromised in several areas.

I have read a bunch of old posts here regarding modern era Lionel switches. What I did not find yet was information about improving the performance of the switch motors. I like to tinker and am interested in improving the operation of the 6-516X switch motors. I intend to open up an old postwar 022 motor and one from one of the newer switches and compare. I was hoping that someone has a few tips on improving the locking mechanism.

The 072 switches I have operate reasonably well but I think there is room for improvement. I have a significant number of them and do not intend to get rid of them. 

Pullman JCT,

     As Rob points out the switches have degraded over the years, instead of trying to rework the modern junk, pick up some 711 or 1st Generation 072's, they are out there, but not cheap in prime shape.

PCRR/Dave 

Pine Creek Railroad posted:

Pullman JCT,

     As Rob points out the switches have degraded over the years, instead of trying to rework the modern junk, pick up some 711 or 1st Generation 072's, they are out there, but not cheap in prime shape.

PCRR/Dave 

I have to agree with Dave about Lionel's switch quality, the quality is missing! In military terms the quality is AWOL(absent without official leave).

Buy the old post war switches, you be glad you did!

Lee Fritz

The 6-516X switches are not as good as the old 711s but I do not consider them junk. They work reasonably well. I think they can be made better and I like to tinker.

Replacing the 6-516X switches with 711s is out of the question for me. I have 18 installed in my current layout and more on the shelf. 

Pullman Jct. posted:

The 6-516X switches are not as good as the old 711s but I do not consider them junk. They work reasonably well. I think they can be made better and I like to tinker.

Replacing the 6-516X switches with 711s is out of the question for me. I have 18 installed in my current layout and more on the shelf. 

Maybe you can put the older post war switch solenoids on your newer switches. The switch housings should be very similar if they are the ones made just after the post war switches, and parts might be able to be changed out between the two of them.

Lee Fritz

I think an old 022 motor would fit Lee but I'm going to see what I can do to improve the newer motor first. I opened up one of each last night to compare the two. I found that the tabs on the moving contact assembly that are part of the locking mechanism are a couple 32nds smaller on the new motor vs. the old motor. This results in more play and is enough of a difference to open the points slightly. I think that if I can widen those tabs the play will be reduced.

Pullman Jct. posted:

I think an old 022 motor would fit Lee but I'm going to see what I can do to improve the newer motor first. I opened up one of each last night to compare the two. I found that the tabs on the moving contact assembly that are part of the locking mechanism are a couple 32nds smaller on the new motor vs. the old motor. This results in more play and is enough of a difference to open the points slightly. I think that if I can widen those tabs the play will be reduced.

PW switches are wired differently. They also fit the track section differently.  They are not interchangeable without a major modification.

Joe

Joe, I tried an old 022 motor with one of my 5-615X switches and it fits fine mechanically and works fine electrically. 

Interesting, I have a box full of O22's that I am not using and  a couple of 615X's that I need to make work better.  Any tips on rebuilding them?  Kathryn

Very timely for me.  I just asked about O72 switches in another thread.  I see some interesting points made here.  

Might I put forth a suggestion.  In my garden railway, I have over fifteen turnouts (switch tracks).  I use track clamps made by Split-Jaw to hold these switches in place.  If I need to do some work on a particular switch track, I simply loosen the clamp and lift the switch out without having to disturb the adjacent track.  I wonder if anyone here sees the merit in this method ?

http://www.railclamp.com

I'm reading several posts about tinkering with the switch motor and/or solenoid of the "modern O22" switch to make it function like the post war O22 switch. I'd just like to point out that the motor housing of a Post War O22 and 711 switch can be mounted on the "modern O22" and the Modern O72 switch without any modifications. the design that allows you to flip the housing from its original side to the other side for track clearance also allows you to use it on switches from different eras. I've done it several times.

Hope this helps.

Mike

Gentlemen,

    IMO you are wasting your time playing with these new Lionel Conventional Tubular Switches, when there were millions of the older high quality  022, 711 & 072 Lionel Switches produced, and you can pick them up in perfect working order, at most any Train Show, for very reasonable money, especially here in the western Pa area.  Purchase the good Lionel Switches they are still available in most places.  I transitioned in and out of them for years on my larger multi level FasTrack layout, before the FasTrack Command Control Switches were engineered & sold.

Even with the good older Lionel switches, they are all a massive power draw, I recommend changing all the light bulbs in both the Controllers and the actual Switches them self, to LED's.  Then use the side plug to stand alone power them, using one Channel of an old ZW, to be able to alter the power required, for proper operation, as you add each new switch, to your layout.

PCRR/Dave

Question, I have an LGB #50111 power supply.  It puts out 20 VAC at 5 amps.  Normally it is used with their #50170 throttle which converts the AC to DC for running trains.  But I wonder if it can be used to power Lionel O22 and O72 switches using the fixed voltage plug.  And how would it work since the negative power to the switch goes through the rails.  Basically, if I were to run trains using an MTH Z-1000 and powering switches with the LGB power supply, would it interfere with one another.  

DP posted:

Basically, if I were to run trains using an MTH Z-1000 and powering switches with the LGB power supply, would it interfere with one another.

Not at all.

Check out my post:  022/711 switch operating pblms  Search for it with Google.  It is on one of the forums.  

You can improve the slop in the locking mechanism by bending the wire latch.  Bend it so it locks in one direction on one side and in the other direction on the other side.  

It is true that the prewar 711/721 switches are made much better than the post war switches.  The early post war switches are the best of the post war 072 switches.  The sliding contacts in these switches are like the sliding contacts in the 022 switches, and they will apparently last forever.  These switches have thumb nuts that are the same size as those on an 022 switch but the threads are metric.  The later switches have larger thumb nuts with metric threads but the sliding switches use a circuit board, and the fixed contacts are very thin and burn away very fast.  The older switch motors can be run using 20 volt power, but the newer ones should have the voltage limited to about 10 volts are the fixed contact will be destroyed.  I would avoid these switches.  

The 022 switches are much better than the 6xxx switches.  I have about 150 022 switches, and they all work well except for one.  This one has a fiber sliding mechanism rather than steel, and it tends to bounce off the stop.  With the switches modified according to the above post, they approach perfection.