More Young People Attending York?

Again, I would advise NOT letting this deter you from participating in the hobby or the show. The number of dealers that are elated to do business with someone our age far outnumber the bad apples.

 

I do have to say though, this is the kind of stuff that makes me chuckle when people lament the lack of youth in the hobby 

Why couldn't the security guard first say "Excuse me, can I verify your badge due to the different color?"  As for the public chastising, that is wrong and can be dealt with in a number of ways.  Although probably not the first thought during the heat of the moment, but best to counter calmly and finally get the guard's ID number and report him to the hall captain, meet registrar and follow it up with a very polite and concise professional letter to the E.D. TCA.  Tempest in a teapot ...maybe, but from the above account it appears that the E.Div's hired staff created the scene, not Matt.

 

SandJam, you were generally treated the same as many others from that dealer.  FWIW, move on - It is not hard to find the many other dealers there and at Allentown that will treat you like a valued and respected customer.

 

Rudeness or self entitlement permeates all generations.

I think I know who you mean as well. I was able to negotiate with him somewhat, but it was a 2 item deal, and I did not get nearly the discount that I believe I should have been able to get. My biggest problem was with a certain "location" parts supplier, who treated me like I was wasting his time by buying parts, even though I had the item the part was for and the part number, to make things easier.  Oh well, his loss. I use a different parts supplier now.

 

One thing which I find helps me is to show that you are knowledgeable about the product. I do this by examining the product, asking specific questions about the item, or just talking about the item and what you know/notice about it. I know this has helped me several times get the respect of the seller, and often a better price.

 

 

Nick and others. It's not just train people that do this. When I was 13 or 14 I literally saved all my allowance and odd job money an entire for a fishing reel .(it was $35 in 1978) Anyway I walked into the store with the ad from the LA Times and cash in hand. The owner behind the counter said he would not sell me the reel because I was too young and he claimed he had too many returns from parents when kids bought reels, they even wouldn't sell it to my 17 year old sister who drove me there. 

 

I ended up going to another dealer it cost me 5 bucks more and I never went near the other place again And I bought a lot of fishing tackle the next several years after that

 

And I still have the reel and they lost a customer forever

Unfortunately when you give "volunteers" a little bit of authority, there's always a couple that just have to show everyone who's in charge! It happens at any big event of ANY type  

The security personnel are NOT volunteers.  They are hired to do the job and they have defined duties and responsibilities.  They work many events in addition to the York train meet.

The uniformed security personnel were fine and professional, the older woman at the door of the Silver Hall on the other hand was not.  I'm 46 and far from a "young buck" but she stopped me not once but twice to read my badge as I came through the door.  My badge holder was not tinted, it was clear and my pass was the normal light blue and flipped over so you could see my name.  She actually stated, "you need to stop so I can read your badge, the print is small".  She was the only one I had an issue with other than a couple of folks who asked me to flip the badge over so they could see the printed side.   

I got the whole badge  incident on video. Here is how it went down

 http://youtu.be/nsdZKCh6RsU

Thanks everyone for your kind words, I guess it looks like I wasn't the only one who was hassled by the ED-TCA. Let me be clear this was definitely a volunteer and not a security guard that followed me down an isle and hassled me. He called security over after he grabbed me. 

 

Mathew

You can bet that if something happens because a fake badge got thru, the door monitors will be in big trouble. If the badges are colored for security purposes you can see why a colored cover would give them pause. Be thankful they don't make you remove it to scan it everytime.

So just curious...are you going to wear the same badge holder next time?

Well Alan, paid or volunteer, you still get the same result from a handful of people who take a little bit of authority a LOOOONG way.

Who knows? I have to have a badge holder.... it doesn't say anywhere in the rules that it has to be theirs. This has absolutely nothing to do with the cost.

No you don't have to wear theirs but given the issues you had with your dad's because of the faded color, I would most likely buy a newer one.

 

The badge can be simply pinned to your shirt, badge holders are not a requirement. 

 

A friend who realized he left his at home once already on the road did this with his replacement he got once he arrived.

 

 

The definition of insanity is "doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different result".

That is absolutely correct.  In some cases it might even be preferred on windy days when the badge holders that are suspended from a lanyard tend to blow around so the badge can't be seen by the door monitors.  Happens to me frequently enough.  If I wear a shirt with a pocket (our OGR shirts do not have pockets), I use the clip-on type of badge holder to display the badge. 

There are two sides to every story. I think the boy's were wrong taking off down the isle and not stopping and taking the badges out of the holders. It's like maybe they wanted to take it further. 

Thank goodness these fellows were stopped, what might have happened had one of them had an old badge. He might have bought a train or worse called a friend and held a prized train until that fellow arrived.

 

York is clearly not for the faint of heart.

 

"York is not for the faint of heart" Stupid remark.

My point this entire event seems to have a life of its own, it is not a place for passive or casual attendee. Grown men spend months on this and other forums vigorously debating issues as important as cell phones, cameras, strollers, and now badges and badge holders.

 

Whole lot of drama for a toy train meet.

 

Can't argue with that, CincinnatiWestern!  It's baffling how an event like this one can become the subject of such bizarre stuff...people dreaming up negative things to say about a successful event that has been going on for far longer than 90% of them have been in the hobby.  It does border on the ridiculous.

 

Yes, change can sometimes be a good and necessary thing.  But change in any organization usually results from those in the organization being actively involved to implement such change (for better or worse).  Those of us on the outside--and that likely includes the vast majority posting here, myself included--really have no say in the matter, nor should we.

 

I've long said that if you can't abide by the rules that the Eastern Division sets for ITS own meet--like them or not--then you have no business attending.

I would agree Cincinnati, going to York after going to other local shows is like going to watch the Superbowl and expecting it to be like a regular season game, it's not by a long shot. For the uninitiated it is simply sensory overload I've been to about 12 in my life and I still get a little wired at everything that's available. I am planning to go this October and I'm still kicking myself for not going last week even tho I was off, had planned on major yard work but Mother Nature turned that idea into mud on Thursday and Friday so that was a complete waste of several days off.

 

Jerry

I have no idea what happened but the story seems odd, at the least.  

 

Coming into the orange hall after lunch outside, my badge holder got turned around by the wind.  It wound itself up pretty good actually.  One of the volunteers at the entrance asked me to turn it around, but he was pretty polite, so were the other two ladies who were covering that entrance throughout most of the day.  Not saying Matt wasn't treated inappropriately, but sometimes if someone acts poorly, you can act to escalate the situation or you can act to defuse it.  Taking the latter route is usually the way to go, and it is easier to do if you remember that most of the Eastern Division folks there are pure volunteers.  In other words, volunteering their time so you can have fun.  Not saying "stuff" doesn't happen but a lot of this nonsense can be avoided if everyone just takes a deep breath.  On a lighter note, it reminds me of that Chappelle skit -- "How not to get your a@# kicked by the police."  I understand the badge holder has sentimental value but they change the color for a reason and if they couldn't see the color, you're going to get asked questions.  No one is trying to insult anyone, it's just that it is their job and they don't know the sentimental value part of the equation.  Next time, just use a holder that doesn't cause issues.  And if someone is rude to you, just smile back and give them what they want.  Don't ever give anyone the power to offend you.  Just my .02.

Well said.  Over the years, we've all had our badge turned around on us by wind, or had it pinned to our shirt and our jacket shifted to partially conceal it without us realizing it, etc.

A long time ago I started deliberately holding my badge for the guard or volunteer to see before I walk into a hall.  I've never gotten anything other than a smile or a polite nod from any of them by approaching it this way.

 

With the 1000's of people each person sitting at a door has to interact with each day, I feel it's worth my minimal effort to make it easier on them if at all possible.

 

-Dave

 

the guy on the right,where  is his badge?- matt i understand you wanting to wear your dad's badge,but if it changes the badge color ,your pretty much asking for it.  there is no excuse for the way you were treated. i am sorry to hear it happened. york is suppose to be a good time for everyone.-jim

To answer your question, CarGuyz/MichaelR, I did notice a marked increase in the number of folks, who from my vantage at 60+, one could characterize as young. That is, I saw more (who appeared to be) 20 and 30-somethings; plenty more teenagers; numerous pre-teens; and a nice number of children, including toddlers than I had noticed in the past eight years. Altogether, however, they did not come near to the total of folks who appeared to me to be 50 and above. This observations comes from a limited perspective, however, seated at one booth in one building, the Orange Hall. I wouldn't offer an opinion on such numbers in the overall Meet.

FrankM

Layout Refinements

My badge got turned around numerous times during the day on Friday. No one said boo to me. I turned it around more times than I can count. No one asked to see it. Go figure. I can see the issues with Matt's holder making the badge seem a different color, which can and does draw attention. I understand the sentimental value.

I ran across this thread while trying to learn as much as possible about York as I'm thinking about attending for the first time.  Some of the comments and experiences expressed here hit home!  Not just in terms of this hobby but also a couple other things I've been involved with where there is a more 'top heavy' or disproportionate senior membership.  Vendors and organizations like TCA should be reaching out to non traditional members like younger people and women.  I find the same issues on the local level too.  Think of all the single moms out there who might start their kids off with Thomas who could develop an interest in this hobby.  I can't reinvent the world but maybe we should organize a side gathering at York for younger people under 50.  

 

quote:

 Think of all the single moms out there who might start their kids off with Thomas who could develop an interest in this hobby.

 

The TCA is heavy with older people because they have the interest, and the money.

There probably aren't a whole lot of single moms that can afford to get into Toy Trains. Nor would they be likely to have the time.

On the brighter side, I attended a train show in Utica, NY this past Sunday. I thought it was well attended with plenty of families.

CW is right.  This is generally an "older folks" hobby, not just in the sense that they are older in age, but also because they are "older" in terms of life experience and have both the time and money to become involved.

 

It's great to have young people--from the very young to those in their 20s and 30s or so--involved in the hobby, but the young generally drop out sometime in their teen years and the vast majority, if they return at all, can't really afford the time or money to do so until somewhat later in life when they are more settled and secure in terms of career, family, housing, and other of life's never-ending requirements.  It has always been that way with this and many other hobbies, so it's really nothing new or unusual.

 

You will certainly find some for whom this is a lifetime hobby, but I think they are probably very few in number.  For most, the interest may have been there for a lifetime, but often enough the resources are not available until sometime later in life.

Sorry to shatter your stereotype but I've had three friends die in the past several years.  One from war, one from illness and one in an accident.  Each of their widows had good jobs before tragedy struck them but they also had life insurance, social security and in the case of the accident, a massive settlement.  One of the widows likes trains and takes her boys to every train show in the area.  There are quite a few women including several mothers who post on this forum.  When I was young, my dad introduced me to trains, first HO then O when I was about 6.  He was that guy with the young family, two train sets in the basement and worked long hours so my mom was around and helped most of the time I played with my trains.  Alot of my neighbor kids had trains and the same family issues, dad's worked a lot and mom's stayed home.  Today people spend a lot more money on entertainment, gadgets and hobbies.  You are correct that this hobby is heavy with older men because as a group they have more of an interest and money  They also have more time to devote to trains.  I'm not suggesting older folks should be banned from train events ... just that the vendors and organizations should be reaching out to or seeking to develop interest with new, non-traditional market segments.  

Sorry about your friends.
Certainly there are single parents with money.

Do you think they are the norm?

 

 

 

I have to agree with CW on this, anecdotal evidence can't be used to plot a trend. 

While there may be single parents out there with a good bit of disposable income they are hardly the norm. We always have someone posting that the typical whatever is wrong because they know of one person who doesn't fit that mold, however the overwhelming majority does. I actually know of several people who claim that smoking doesn't cause lung cancer because they know of someone who died from lung cancer and they didn't smoke.

 

Jerry

 

Honestly, I do see a couple of little kids here and there, but mostly they're in the kid areas with Thomas toys and what not.

 

I believe I'm the youngest guy who attends these shows regularly, and I'm 20.

The typical timeline of kid likes trains/kid leaves trains/older adult gets back into trains IS typical because that is how involvement in the hobby evolved for the vast majority of its participants.

 

Take into consideration that many of us "oldsters" in the hobby today grew up in a time when railroading--real and toy--was a visible and ever-present part of everyday life, and it's quite easy to see how and why the demographics and level of participation are bound to change.  I'm not sure what manufacturers or organizations should be doing that they are not already doing now (especially organizations like the active clubs around the nation).  It's really up to each of us, as individuals, to do our best to grow the hobby one person at a time, if we are motivated to do so. 

I have noticed more young folks at the last few Yorks, and it's not just young er guys. I'v seen many young families, and even groups of two or three women meandering the halls.

I hope this is an indication of a sustainable toy train future. 

As for the badges, I used to use my fishing license holder until I got one of those around the neck purses ED was selling. Are they still available? They have room for everything!

And the questioning at the door, I'm in my late 50's, and if my badge isn't showing or turned around, I get stopped. Just one of the rules.

You are correct sir!

 

I think I need to schedule an eye appointment immediately because  what jumps out at me is how old the crowd is  at York. I see very few youg people there. I actually feel young for the day I am there. (54)

Bingo!  I actually mentioned this to wife after one of the last couple of York Meets I attended.

 

I'm closer to 60 than 50 and I always feel like one of the spring chickens.