MPC era Lionel

Your Hudson is built on Post War tooling.  Pre War is pre-1942.  Please tell me you didn't apply power before replacing the foam pad in the tender?

Jon

Also, the Chessie System didn't exist in the steam era.

Jon

Rockershovel, there's no reason you couldn't have saved yourself some supposed disappointment by doing some research on this model via the internet, before you purchased it. For example, like Kooljock pointed out, this engine is based on postwar tooling, NOT prewar. You could have Googled it, or asked questions here before purchasing it. There's also been discussion about the sound boards of that era, and what to do when purchasing a steam engine from that period.

You're comparing apples to oranges by judging this MPC era Hudson to one made by K-Line, or many other more recent models, as far as added features, visual appearance or fine scale detailing. It was a different era back then and Lionel was a different company. Manufacturing technology was also different, as was the physical location.

Even the Lionel starter set 0-8-0 is an impressive engine for what it is. The detailing in that casting is a far improvement over what you will see now on many used MPC items that were once in starter sets of that day.

But for many of us, the charm of the MPC era trains is exactly what you seem to be unhappy with: Their simplicity. As with many postwar trains, they are toys more than fine scale models. For me, my imagination adds all the other details.

And although they are not without their problems, they are also pretty reliable and easily repairable. Because they were made in such large quantities from designs that utilized components from one model to another, finding parts is not nearly the issue it is today for many recently made trains.

But you say you bought it because of the low price. That's also an advantage of buying MPC era (and some postwar era) trains too. Yes, there's been some discussion of MPC on this forum, right where it belongs here in the Hi-Rail, 027 And Traditional 3-Rail O Gauge forum. Read that again: That's exactly what MPC is. The term "Hi-Rail" has been hi-jacked in recent years to mean "scale." which it does not.

There's also PLENTY of discussion on this particular forum about very expensive, highly detailed, featured loaded, scale proportioned trains that...

-Don't work out of the box (or shortly there after)

-Don't have parts available

-Are too expensive to fix

And many, many other complaints - including the familiar quote "With what we pay for these trains..." What you're paying for is the privilege of being able to obtain a feature loaded, scale model that is made in extremely SMALL production runs - sometimes as small as 25 units. A far cry from the trains of past years that were made in single production runs in the multiple thousands. (Save for the traditional Polar Express set, which Lionel says is the biggest selling starter set in their entire history).  That's what you're paying for.

Again, doing some research on the internet before you buy is not only expedient, but easy too. There's no excuse today for not doing that. Based on what I read here about the high end trains, there are always loads and loads of problems (and disappointments) and yet people still buy them.  To each his own I guess.

Rockershovel posted:

I’ve just acquired an MPC era Hudson, quite cheap. Since there’s various discussion of MPC lately I thought I’d add my two-penn’orth. 

Firstly, I’m not tremendously impressed with the general appearance and detailing. Much more a toy, than a model. Too close to Pre-War levels but somehow lacking the general feel of “period” and robustness which they possess. The K Line one is much superior in this respect. 

Secondly, I do like the die-cast 6-wheel tender. No current rollers fitted, although the lugs and fittings are there. 

Thirdly, it’s fitted with Magna-Traction, rather than traction tyres.

Fourthly, the trailing bogie .... h’mmm, yeah. Not keen on this, the unit on the Polar Express “train set” Berkshire is a better treatment of this, much better in overall looks and appearance. 

Fifth... the tender (again). I’m surprised at the short loco and tender drawbars, which seems to require O54 curves. This is a little surprising, given the huge gap on the Berkshire, and that the K Line Hudson navigates O27 without difficulty (bearing in mind that I don’t have any reverse curves on my O27 door layout / test loop)

Six, the tender sounds don’t seem to work. This doesn’t grieve me too much, on the whole, although it doesn’t help the resale potential. 

Seven, the smoke unit DEFINITELY works, but has no on/off switch. 

I’m unsure quite what to do, at this point. The Berkshire didn’t make enough on eBay, so it’s probably staying. I’m pondering combining parts from the two, to make up a 6-wheel, short-drawbar, modern electronic whistle tender with on/off switch, for the Berkshire? Possibly lettered Chesapeake and Ohio, since I’ve got several “Chessie System” rolling stock items? 

 

I agree with the last few posters.  MPC was simply a remake of post-war Lionel stuff with some added attractions.  If you are looking for more scale-like trains, most MPC is not for you.  

That said, even MPC tooling was far better than some post-war tooling.  I own both MPC and post-war trains.  Post-war steam locomotive castings have alot of tooling marks and areas where you can plainly see where the workman at the factory ground of flash.  

For those of us who came back to Lionel in the seventies as adults, MPC made everything we saw in the catalogs as kids growing up in the fifties, but couldn't afford then.  We were and still are quite happy with what MPC produced.

- “Pre-War” is a typo - spellchecker strikes again! Should be “post-war” but I can’t edit it? 

I have the #783 Hudson, and the trucks on the tender DO have rollers, which would help explain why you don't have any sound, in particular the whistle. As to the drawbar, a previous owner may have changed it to a closer one for appearance. On mine, someone had replaced the pilot truck with a scale version, and I in turn had to find an original to run on 031track. 

If you want the extra detail of the more "scale" versions and you enjoy working on your trains, repro 700E parts are available from parts dealers to add on. If you search the Forum you'll find several people who have done this.

I've started a tune-up of mine this week and am planning a "down-grade" of the electronics by replacing the tender with a repro 700T that only has the mechanical whistle. Lots of us still prefer the old sounds and conventional operation for our toy trains .

Rockershovel posted:

Fifth... the tender (again). I’m surprised at the short loco and tender drawbars, which seems to require O54 curves. This is a little surprising, given the huge gap on the Berkshire, and that the K Line Hudson navigates O27 without difficulty (bearing in mind that I don’t have any reverse curves on my O27 door layout / test loop)

 

Just a single point:  MPC made *nothing* that required 054 curves.  Perhaps you could post a pic or two so that we can diagnose the problem. . . .

I'm guessing this isn't a #773 casting, but rather a "small" Hudson?  Mighty Sound of Steam?  What road name is on the tender?

Jon

Ok, I didn’t MEAN that to be read as a general whinge, although some people seem to have taken it as such. I’m only lately come to Lionel (although I first saw it many years ago, visiting my cousins in the US) and I don’t have the general background knowledge. 

I did do a fair amount of research online but there are always places that won’t take you, details it doesn’t include. 

Post War stock here in the U.K. is rare, and mostly in pretty poor condition, plus some restorations which are probably over-restored, as most restorations of any sort usually are. 

Positives - its a good, robust-looking loco with virtually no wear on it, for very little money. It starts and reverses smoothly and consistently, and seems to have plenty of grip. I do like the 6-wheel, die-cast tender, very much. It looks good with a set of 3 x 24xx coaches, or a consist of 4 x Madisons I’ve just bought. 

Negatives - I’d prefer a switch for the smoke - that isn’t rocket science. The front pilot wheels seem very small indeed. I don’t much care for the livery, which seems rather garish to me. Then again, no more so than plenty of things being produced then and since, by Tri-Ang and Hornby. Since it has been mentioned, MPC did apparently produce this 

Specifics - clearly this loco is less original than its packaging, and unworn state suggest. The short drawbar doesn’t seem to appear on any photos I can find, for example, although it’s hard to be sure. Ok, there are ways to deal with that, probably involving a piece of brass strip and a hand drill. The tender collector rollers appear to have been removed and lost. Well, so it goes. I can’t, therefore, comment on the sound system. Having heard Sound Of Steam, that doesn’t much grieve me. 

Conclusions - some minor work needed but nothing you wouldn’t expect, playing with old toy trains. I’ll continue upgrading the K Line one, as a “club days and shows” pony, and ready this one for “home layout” duty. 

I don’t really care about the sounds. I’ve got a couple of older “mechanical whistle” tenders to hand, if I want a whistle. Short term working solution - tape the wire tether ends away somewhere tidy, and leave as-is. 

I’ll probably give the whole thing a spray of satin black, which looks good on locos like that in my view.

It’s this.. looking at it, the short drawbars DO seem to be original 

I paid around the same for my K Line Hudson, by the time I have finished the electronics upgrades and some wiring changes to suit the "“club running day” scene over here, it will be around $400 I suppose. In UK terms, that’s pretty reasonable. 

The “scale model” and “vintage toy trains” scenes over here have a different relationship, I think. Scale 2-rail is dominant, by a substantial margin, and the 3-rail scene plays by its own rules. 

I’ve now taken the pliers to the loco drawbar, and taped away the two ends of the tether. Runs fine. If I want a whistle, I’ll run a air whistle tender, which I rather like.. it’s not an electronic sound, is it?

Rockershovel: Okay, sorry for all the misunderstanding. What you showed isn't the scale Hudson, but one of the smaller Hudsons like the postwar 2056 (which used the same boiler casting as the Chessie Berkshire you also displayed). This is one of the engines made for TCA members. Still a nice engine.

Looks like somebody bent the locomotive draw-bar in half!

Jon

Dan Padova posted:

I agree on about the Chessie Berkshire paint scheme.  I think it's too colorful for a steam locomotive. 

Although there was a prototypical Chessie Steam Special.

With respect to your TCA Hudson, I suppose the old saying "you get what you pay for" might apply. It was cheap, and who knows what its history is, and who did what to it. It was made in 1985, 34 years ago, well before K-Line was making their steamers and before the later "semi-scale" engines were developed and came on the market. 

In the MPC line of steam engines, a lot of folks, me included, think the Berkshire-type engines (2-8-4 wheel arrangement, or I guess in the UK they would be called 1-4-2) were excellent. If you can find one of those at the right price, you'd probably have a higher degree of satisfaction, assuming you don't move to a later era K-line of other "semi-scale" engine.

Sir, with all the things you weren't happy about with this engine, why did you purchase it?

breezinup posted:

Dan Padova posted:

I agree on about the Chessie Berkshire paint scheme.  I think it's too colorful for a steam locomotive. 

Although there was a prototypical Chessie Steam Special.

With respect to your TCA Hudson, I suppose the old saying "you get what you pay for" might apply. It was cheap, and who knows what its history is, and who did what to it. It was made in 1985, 34 years ago, well before K-Line was making their steamers and before the later "semi-scale" engines were developed and came on the market. 

In the MPC line of steam engines, a lot of folks, me included, think the Berkshire-type engines (2-8-4 wheel arrangement, or I guess in the UK they would be called 1-4-2) were excellent. If you can find one of those at the right price, you'd probably have a higher degree of satisfaction, assuming you don't move to a later era K-line of other "semi-scale" engine.

Yes, you are correct.  I didn't particularly care for the paint scheme on the prototype either.

^^What Jon said.  A previous owner bent or modified the drawbar.  In stock form this loco could navigate O31 or even O27 curves.  It's a 1984 reissue of the Postwar Lionel 2046 Hudson upgraded by MPC to a metal tender.  Unapologetically a colorful Toy Train, and not scale in appearance or performance.

Why did I buy it? Because I’m still at the stage where quite a few of my purchases amount to “taking a punt” (for US readers, “to take a punt” in British English means a speculative venture based on insufficient information). 

So far, I’ve discovered a new field in model railways, joined a new forum and a new running day group local to me, expanded my contacts to include a local model railway electrics and electronics specialist ... it’s a lot of fun. 

Based on what I’ve learned on here and by studying the loco, I’ve now decided to make it the centre-piece of my “door” O27 layout. It’ll be rather good, I think; when time allows, I’ll sort out an air whistle in the tender and repaint it satin black, the better to fit in with the older O27 rolling stock. 

thanks, gents, much obliged for the information and comment.

If infomation about Lionel Trains is scarce in your neck of the woods, ask here first.  You will get as much subjective info as objective info, but at least you can make a somewhat educated decision.

Berkshires are 2-8-4 over here. It’s the French and Germans that use the UIC notation denoting number of axles. 

Rockershovel posted:

- “Pre-War” is a typo - spellchecker strikes again! Should be “post-war” but I can’t edit it? 

 

You mean you couldn’t edit it even after selecting “take action” under your original post and then clicking on “edit”?