MPC F3s - How Are They?

They pretty much all have traction tires, but basically the same as the later post wars, no magnatraction.  Mechcanical E units, the motors are the same post war ones...

Marty

Great pullers for only one motor due to the traction tires. They are built with otherwise postwar specs, sans horn, so are very much like a 2243 mechanically. The B&O diesels were reportedly assembled at Hillside some two & a half years after most of the production was moved to Michigan.

I have the B&O A-B-A set pulling a 11-12 car postwar consist on the track now. I put the powered unit at the back pushing the dummies & pulling the train.

I have several of the MPC era dual motored F3s. I think they are currently absolute bargains. Last week I received a never run Illinois Central F3 ABA with 6 passenger cars from the bay for south of $500.00. Had to tear down clean and lube motors and trucks. This consist runs wonderfully.

The spur gears are nylon.  I have read that these can be stripped, though I have yet to observe this problem on any of the MPC units.

I'll take traction tires over magnatraction any day of the week.  

I have the 20th Century Limited set from 83 with all the add-on cars. Never had an issue on Lionel track due to the magna-traction. However, on Atlas track it suffers. So, I had 2 of the magna-traction wheels on each power truck replaced with traction tire wheels. Now, it runs great with the entire consist (ABA with 7 aluminum cars) on Atlas track.

Peter

Depending on your personal preferences, the MPC F3s can be a good value if the price is low enough. Most lack the details found on early PW diesels and also on most later production F units from Lionel and other manufacturers.

Williams F3's (not F7s) have all the detail of the very early PW F units and are terrific runners. Probably THE best value for non-command engines on the used market. Williams produced almost all of the desirable Lionel schemes with nose grab irons, roof screen vents, portholes and the like. They'll 'pull stumps' if necessary!

Many of the MPC-era F3's were single motored. Case in point: The Amtrak 8466/8475/8467 A-B-A set, in which only the rear truck of the 8466 was powered. With a consist of 6 passenger cars, wheel slipping and throwing off traction tires was frequent. My solution was obtaining a dual-motored F3 powered chassis for the 8467, giving the train three motors. 

The MPC F3's were reliable runners otherwise. 

As others have previously stated, most are single motored. I have the Milwaukee Road and Canadian Pacific versions, bought mostly because they are close to the Postwar versions in appearance, but at a fraction of the price, and in the condition I wanted - no scratches, no flaking of nose decals. I have my CP units pulling a four car aluminum passenger consist from Williams and have minimal slippage. 

Some of them have off-center wheels, so they wobble down the track like a duck. But if the wheels are round, they run fine. The E-units in MPC locos seem to buzz more than most post war E-units.

Living near MPC it was easy to get a single motor chassis. So my A dummies were converted to power units. The later 2 motor chassis ran just as well as any PW F3.

Edit: I also added porthole windows and grab irons to the front.

I ran my Pennsy's both Green and Tuscan units for years. Regular cleaning and replacement of brushes and rubber tires was all that was required. When both sets were replaced, with new MTH units the wheels on my MPC units were grooved from running on tubular track. They served me well.

Gents,

Thanks to all for the comments and information on these. Some great advice.

Am probably going to pull the trigger on some like-new B&O AAs that I can get at a nice price.

The New Haven livery F-3s, which Lionel produced in 1978, were the first dual motored F-3s made since early Postwar days. The previous F-3s made by MPC had single motors. All the Lionel F-3s made after the New Havens had dual motors. Gradually, grab irons and other detail items were added back in as well.

One thing I enjoy about these engines is that you can swap shells and chassis. For example, I have put several shell sets, such as the Illinois Central F-3s, on newer TMCC/RailSounds equipped chassis to modernize them. Besides the TMCC and R/S, it adds finished interiors and crew members, directional fixed voltage lighting, electrocouplers, etc. Great fun.

breezinup posted:

The New Haven livery F-3s, which Lionel produced in 1978, were the first dual motored F-3s made since early Postwar days.

I know it seemed like an eternity, but it was only 12 years!

And Madison Hardware had 2383 AA sets in stock the whole time.

I believe that all the traction tire models have cast ZAMAC wheels, as opposed to the sintered iron that magnetraction models have.
 
Sometimes the wheels have a seam under the traction tire(s) that can be smoothed off to eliminate the wobble.

Last I looked, replacement power trucks for MPC single motored F3's are available on Ebay.

c.sam posted:

Williams F3's (not F7s) have all the detail of the very early PW F units and are terrific runners. Probably THE best value for non-command engines on the used market. Williams produced almost all of the desirable Lionel schemes with nose grab irons, roof screen vents, portholes and the like. They'll 'pull stumps' if necessary!

Funny you mentioned this, c.sam, as I was just looking at some like-new Williams B&O F3 units. They definitely have more detail than their MPC counterparts. I've got a handful of Williams motive power so know they are great runners with plenty of power. Bullet-proof as I like to call them.

Decisions?

I have a set of PRR tuscan F3's from '78 or '79.  They run fine but are very lack luster by today's standards.  Motors and cab lights, that's it.  The tuscan finish is even a bit dull.  The biggest issue I have with them is the add on B unit.  This particular set suffered from the B unit frame being warped.  Mine is not bad, but warped never the less.  

When I bought them from the original owner, they had never been run and they were 20 years old.  Everything I own runs.  After a good lube, they hit the rails.  They ran about 3" before they had 4 flat tires!  lol.  Of course that was Christmas eve...  

When I am in the mode to smell some ozone, they come out.  If I just want to run something I don't have to fuss with, my tuscan PS3 MTH E8's are my choice.

Tony

johnstrains posted:

c.sam posted:

Williams F3's (not F7s) have all the detail of the very early PW F units and are terrific runners. Probably THE best value for non-command engines on the used market. Williams produced almost all of the desirable Lionel schemes with nose grab irons, roof screen vents, portholes and the like. They'll 'pull stumps' if necessary!

Funny you mentioned this, c.sam, as I was just looking at some like-new Williams B&O F3 units. They definitely have more detail than their MPC counterparts. I've got a handful of Williams motive power so know they are great runners with plenty of power. Bullet-proof as I like to call them.

Decisions?

I have two Golden Memories F3s from Williams - the NYC and the Santa Fe versions. Lots of detail. Very pleased with both but the red is a little off on the SF units. Not a deal breaker though. 

If I remember correctly there were a few MPC/LTI F-3 units that were remakes of the 2383 postwar design.  The 8480 Union Pacific, the 8580 Illinois Central, and a 8370 New York Central set.  There may have been others produced.  They are dual motored and very similar to the postwar units.  They used to command a much higher premium than the single motor F3 MPC units with rubber tires.  I have the UP set that is ABA and pulls 7 passenger cars with no problem.

I always thought the paint job on most of the MPC F3 single motor units were really nice, especially the B&O and the Southern Crescent.  So if they are cheap enough you might buy them and put the shells on a better running chassis.

The level of detail definitely drifts around on the LIONEL F3s

I have the 1983 New York Central ABA set. 8370/8372 - MPC-era

I does have dual motors and magnetraction.

It also has the front grab irons - but, it does not have metal roof screens.

The paint is ok - I think the shell is grey plastic with the stripes painted.

But the front nose stripes are a sticker!...as is the front herald...not even decals.

The other thing that stinks is - the "Illuminated Number Plates" don't have numbers!

Cosmetically - I prefer the ones with metal roof screens, front grab irons, and actual numbers on the number plates! - Not sure that combo ever existed in the MPC-era.

Roving Sign posted:

The level of detail definitely drifts around on the LIONEL F3s

I have the 1983 New York Central ABA set. 8370/8372 - MPC-era

I does have dual motors and magnetraction.

It also has the front grab irons - but, it does not have metal roof screens.

The paint is ok - I think the shell is grey plastic with the stripes painted.

But the front nose stripes are a sticker!...as is the front herald...not even decals.

The other thing that stinks is - the "Illuminated Number Plates" don't have numbers!

Cosmetically - I prefer the ones with metal roof screens, front grab irons, and actual numbers on the number plates! - Not sure that combo ever existed in the MPC-era.

There used to be a parts guy that had raised numbers boards for all the MPC era F3's. They may still be around. You can also make your own with old Champ numbers applied onto the flat clear ones.

JOHNSTRAINS,

Should you get these B. and O. F-3's, I can tell you, a large string of different MPC box cars behind it would look great. The more colors the better.