MPC Fan Thread

Interesting use of MARX elevated track supports!

KRA,

I believe the reverse unit thats inside your CNW diesel was only ever use in that diesel.

I like the Marx trestles with the Fastrack. I have a few of them. I'll have to see if there is a way to put Fastrack on top of the, too.

Jim I believe my Lionel 18307 PRR FM Trainmaster, road number 8699, also has the "Liontech" electronic reverse unit.

The 8375, and the Quick Silver Alco from a year prior had a newly developed electronic reverse unit. Around 1980 MPC had planned on issuing more product with a DC can motor, but by around 1982 the use of a bridge rectifier allowed the can motors to be run with AC power. This resulted in the development of a electronic reverse unit to replace the old style e units. The unit continued to be improved, and became known

as the Liontech reverse unit during the LTI years.

 

The 8375 was an interesting engine, it was the first dual motored geep made during the MPC era, and I would dare say that it had dual motors based on issues with the Quick Silver alco that could barely pull it's set with only it's single can motor.

Some 8375's were made in Mt. Clemmens, and some were made in Mexico.

The Mexican produced units have more detailing on the cab, and state Lionel, made in Mexico on the belly of the fuel tank. The photo shows the grab rails that are painted black on the Mexican units

 

My recent MPC find is the N & W Bicentenial GP-9 from 1976. This engine came with either glossy paint (as is mine) or a matt finish. Most have a circle of stars on the hood, some have only a single star. This engine was one of the last made with the fragile (though more realistic) wire handrails. This engine is in need of some TLC, but after some basic cleaning it started right up, and is running fine.

 

Thanks for the notes about the Marx track supports, I always look for them on the bay as there is no other product quite like them.

 

Ken

As the focus of my operating collection is MPC era Lionel and K-Line, I traded in some of my "other" era, and other manuf. rolling stock, and picked up some more MPC & K-Line goods to fill in the collection.

 

Here are some of the recent MPC purchases. 

My favorite MPC diesel, #8776 - a good puller with a 100% reliable reversing unit.

Do any of you MPC fans know of any shops with MPC "stuff"-I am looking for a 9700 Southern box car, the green dot variation. Thanks in advance, turtle7

I am a big MPC fan. I grew up with it, the pieces are colorful, easy to fix (unless it's a Geep with a stripped gear) and you can build up a nice collection without risking bankruptcy or divorce. 

 

if I wasn't on my iPad writing this I would post some pics. But some of my favorites are:

 

8100 N&W J aluminum set

8064/65 Florida East Coast GP-9s

8772 GM&O GP-20

Santa Fe and Southern FARR sets

 

Ive got a 9700 Southern box without the green "O".  But I think that car does have a metal slide and/or rivit variation also.

And GM owned Lionel at the time!

Dennis is right...it is time for another Industrial revolution here in the U.S.A.!

Pipe dream?  But one can still dream!

Gentlemen:

 

I'm not exactly sure what "MPC era" Lionel is... However, I do have these... Most were found in a bargain bin at the semi-local HS.

 

Could someone help me out here? Not quite sure what I've got... My dad thinks they're plasticy junk, (I'm not sure what he's talking about...) I happen to find them delightful and boldly colourific!

 

Looks like MPC (the era from 1970 - 1985) ... but you would have to post the car numbers for us to be sure.  

       
       


The Rotary plow is Rio Grande #8459
Bay Window Caboose #6422 (built 1-81)
Rio Grande Boxcar #9044 (built 1-75)
Bosco Boxcar #6014
Pullman 1 000 000 boxcar #PLCX-31 (new 8-79, also 9700 series on one bulkhead)
Dow Chem triple dome #16112 (built 1-90)
Reynolds Aluminum Covered Hopper #NAHX 9260 (built 1-75)
CDN Nat ore car #CN6126 (built 1-85)
Unpictured Flatcar ATSF #9022

I don't think I have any motive power from that era besides the plow. Maybe that tank car is pushing it in terms of MPC years, however it did come in a box the same style as the rest of the items listed.

Thanks for your help!

The 8153 of 1981-82

 

For more information of the "creation" of the MPC era I highly recommend the McComas-Tuohy book, Lionel, The Collectors Guide and History, 1970 to 1980.

 

This book goes into great detail about the Lionel Corporation's then CEO (Saypol) watching the growing MPC with interest, and how the deal got put together.

To his credit Saypol knew that Lionel was not in the financial shape to properly market the train line, and yet he did not want to sell it to just anyone.

 

Although the book focuses on production for the period of '70 to '80, later pressings of the book contain production information into the post MPC era through the early 90's.

 

Ken

 

Christopher, I'd say you have a darn good MPC collection still!  I like it.

These days I seem to be running Williams engines pulling MPC cars. Williams PC F3s or Williams Chessie/PC GP38s pulling a train of MPC 9200 series boxcars and a Wiilliams PC porthole caboose.

Christopher,

 

Looks like some of those cars received truck upgrades, notably the PFE & ART reefers and the Hershey's 9041 w/ postwar bar end trucks, and your 9204 boxcar and a couple of others with Lionel's die cast bettendorf sprung trucks that I don't think originally came with.  Also looks like your Ralston Purina quad hopper has the very early MPC carryover postwar AAR "Timken" trucks on it, again, never saw those cars come with anything except the Symington-Wayne trucks.

I'm still looking for some 9700 &9800 series cars for my collection. See my ad in the wanted section if you have any for sale.

The MPC era was a good period in Lionel history. General Mills restarted in the ashes of the old Lionel and brought back the wider product line for the re-emerging collector market. Post war items that were once hard to find or rare were brought out again by MPC. They kept the products simple, affordable and easy to repair and they were all 100% American made. They will be remembered for  the bright colors used for the plastics in the rolling stock shells. In most cases the bodies/shells were left unpainted, in the color right from the plastic mold and then heat stamped with the road names.  

I have MPC F3's, the GG1, the Virginian Trainmaster, Rectifier, some GP 7's (or is it 9's) the Congressional set, and a whole host of rolling stock. While innovation was slight, MPC did introduce the low friction needle bearing trucks. What I disliked most was the removal of all of the rivet detail from the 9700 series box cars that they seemed to run in 100's of road names.

That practice started with the 9200 series boxcars which were the original release of the 6464-derived boxcars since the postwar period.  Exception was the double-door "automobile" boxcars that used the same molds but retained much of the side rivet details.

 

I agree that I would have preferred the side rivets to have remained, but the reason they did this was simple and makes sense:  It made the boxcar sides flat and smooth for much easier and consistent application of the lettering & heralds on the cars.

Didn't the real Lionel Corp remove some rivets too?

I have some holes to fill.

 

 

if some people were getting down on MPC and comparing it to post war, or even pre war stuff. You are comparing apples to oranges.  MPC made some very neat items during that era. And I particularly like that rolling stock because I can pull many cars.

15-20 or even 30 at a time.

Yes, but Lionel Corp typically only removed several rivets on certain rows or maybe one or two entire rows of rivets on the 6464 boxcar sides, not virtually all the rivets like MPC did with the 9200/9700/9400 series boxcar sides.

 

See this link for the 6464 boxcar rivet detail variations for reference.  On MPC boxcars, with the exception of maybe their UP 9203 boxcar, they have only one single rivet on the top and bottom ends of where each row would be on the sides would normally be.

The 8206 is on my list of engines to pick up.

My brother and I had one years ago, didn't keep it.

That would be the Elesco feedwater heater.  

LOL yes, thanks.  I knew it was a feedwater heater, but the type was eluding me.  Somebody called it a bouffant in a book once, it might have been Lucius Beebe but I might be all wet.  Anyway, I took it and ran with it.

And while I'm thinking of it, this small 4-4-2 Atlantic that keeps cropping up in the thread, the one that MPC managed to make out of the old 2-6-4 shell, I have some questions on it for anyone who might know.  

 

I have the version lettered for Rock Island.  I know I have to put a new traction tire on it. I would LIKE to put a new boiler front on it. (pilot bent down)

 

So...

1.) Are the boiler front and the pilot all one piece?  If it's a part I can find it.

2.) My atlantic has an awfully fuzzy casting with a seam down the middle, my small hudson of the same period has the sharpest casting I've seen for that era.  The atlantic is shiny, the hudson almost looks like graphite.  Did casting and paint run the gamut like this in the early 70's?

3.) I am seeing pictures of this atlantic two ways, one with plain spoked trailing wheels, and the other with kind of a truck around the trailing wheels.  I have plain.  I'd like to get the kind with the truck.  Are these two parts interchangeable?

 

And another thing about this engine that's nice is that the SOS isn't completely awful.  Something about that specific tender I guess. I apologize for no pictures, but the layout is on the other side of town. When I go to the train store tomorrow I'll ask them about this engine too.

Here is some information on the 4-4-2s:

 

1). The pilot and boiler front are two pieces.  The boiler front is actually part of the shell casting.  There are two screws holding the pilot to the boiler casting.  You can access them by removing the siderods and front truck assembly.

 

2). Lionel used flat and gloss paint on its steam engines in the '70s.  I have a 8304 myself and it is flat, and my 8206 Hudson has a shinier finish.  Aging can also affect the patina of the paint.  Dont forget these things are around 40 years old now.  

 

3) the early 4-4-2 from 1971 (8142) had a cast trailing truck.  The 8304 used a stamped truck without the casting with the wheels exposed.  If you can find the part you can swap them out.  

 

Hope This helps. 

 

PS--to other collectors out there:  does anyone know why Lionel made four different 8304 engines? (This isn't a trivia question; I seriously have no clue why they did this)

my 8206 is unique:  it has a 665/2065 drive train with magnetraction.  My dad bought it from MB Klein in Baltimore around 1977.  I'm 99% sure it is a post- factory changeout. 

 

As a kid I ran ran the wheels off that engine.  For years it was our resident Big Engine, suffered a smoke unit fire(a flame literally shot out of the stack once) and the sound of steam blew out long ago.  But it's still a favorite of mine.  It is one of the most historically significant MPC engines because it showed that they were serious about bringing back the higher-end pieces.  

my 8206 is one of my favorites too, mine is also repowered with a 2046 motor, the original bent an axle from the wobble used the the mpc smoke unit and e unit but miss the disc drivers, i'm hoping to find another one without the wobble some day.

just picked up two mpc era geep's a cp rail and pc unit, 50 bucks each with cabooses couldn't go wrong the pc is even lighted in both ends.

Dave

Here is an example of one of the earlier 4-4-2 atlantics with the die cast trailing truck and the original boiler front.  SOME of the 8142, and ALL of the 8305 engines came with the newly created electronic whistle (the 8206 also had this feature). The whistle did not play well with the Mighty Sound of Steam, and it was dropped until a revamped version came out with the Chessie berk in 1980.  That said the whistles in my 8142 and 8305 continue to work long after the MSOS boards gave up the ghost.

 

 

Another great MPC era steam engine is the 8600 from 1976. This was the first MPC era engine to feature magnetraction. This engine was made from the PW 646/2046 tooling, and the operating prototype was made in Hillside. It was fist considered for the Milwaukee Road passenger train in 1973, but the concern was that would have increased the set price too much. An often forgotten chapter in the early MPC years is that small section of the Hillside plant (50,000 sq/ft in the basement) was retained for the first 5 years, and some production was done there.  Lenny Dean and his service/repair staff operated there until the lease was up in 1975.

 

 

Here is the 8305 with the newer boiler front, I like this better as it illuminates the marker lights.

 

 

Ken

 

 

 

Ken, Tommy, thanks much for your answers, for very little money and the right amount of effort I can get that engine where I want it.  It's not so much the looks of a drooping pilot that warrants replacement, it's the fact that the center rail is right under it always.  As for the trailing truck that is all looks, the outside frame ones look so much more 'serious.'

I came across this guy the other night.   The original "Limited Edition" in gold.. 

Hard to believe I bought it 40+ years ago.    

Sticker on box says, "our price $39.95"  

Joe

 

  

KRA, I have one of those 8142's with a dead whistle board in the tender!

Those gold Chessie's shot up in "value" shortly after release. I could have purchased one at Savoy Merchandise on 23rd St in NYC for $25. I choose to spend my money that day at Madison. I think they went up to around $100 very quickly.
They have been available NOS for less than $100 for a number of years.