mth 3 volt board?? updated 3-22-2014

PS-2 3V boards are still available.  You have a lot going on here.  Did you try a factory reset via DCS?  Does that fix any symptoms?

 

This really needs to be checked by a tech.  The board is tested out side the engine to verify all functions work.  Than engine is gone over.

 

The heater elements should measure 8 ohms.  The fan should turn with a 3V battery.  Why forward only and some of the other issues could be a faulty component on the PS-2 Board especially if a wire was pinched or shorted.  G

I tried a factory reset and came up with an engine error on remote!
So rather than didle with it took to a mth repair center ouch $300 min repair.

As a side note I use jt's smoke fluid only this one locomotive paint is being eaten from above smoke stack! Repair and shop owner said stop using it I said why all others are happy with it no issues LOL.
This one engine has been a problem child since purchased new when it runs is a great engine but like a child it has the terrible 2's syndrome.
For some reason it always burns the wick where they tie a knot at heat element I sometimes wonder if this is the reason they burn and smoke starts slowly going away ? as it has enough fluid and is smoking ok while running.
so maybe it is getting burned cooling off from being powered down hmmmmm.

I thank you for your idea my wallet wishes it had worked.

$oo

I am a repair center also and I would have charged less.  Did you do the repair?  I try to do component level repairs first.  Good chance I could have repaired your boards vice replace.  If I did have to replace I would have given discount.  Even with shipping you would have been under the $300 target.   G

GGG.  I will keep you in mind am going to call and make sure I get old boards back and if you will give me info I can ship to you and get old ones repaired in case I need it again. 

My father Inlaw always said two are better than one LOL. I already submitted for repair wouldn't feel right about pulling it back out plus he already ordered them.

 

any thoughts on why wicks keep burning up nice and hard right where the element is?

 

thank you 

 

$oo

He probably has to keep them for turn ins.  So I doubt your boards will be returned.

 

Not enough smoke fluid.  How many drops do you add?  G

GGG.... I heard from the the repairman and he said  boards are shot he tried replacing an item I think a power regulator? anyways he checked and most components on the boards are bad so he will order replacements from mth after that he then can see what else is wrong with the smoke unit.

 

as to smoke fluid I normally add 10-15 drops prior to running let stand for 5 minutes prior to powering up.

 

I am beginning to think the wicks getting burned more from being powered off and smoke elements still hot as smoke output at time of shutdown is good so not like not enough fluid in the wick.

 

am guessing it will be awhile before I see this engine.

 

$oo

 

Usually with burned wick it was either run dry, or the fan no longer turns to provide cooling.  G

GGG..... So my thought is correct power engine and or smoke off fan stops no air thus heat buildup and burnt wick.

Now I wonder if a software feature could be made to allow fan to run until heating element cooled off now that would be useful.
Thanks for your input.
$oo

I don't know if that happens.  The heat and fan go off together.  I don't think many folks are continually having smoke issues.  While there is some burning, normally it is not at the level that limits transfer of heat to the wick and fluid.  Maybe you have a lower resistance element.  They should be 2 16 ohms in parallel which should read 8ohms.  If you less than 8 ohms, that may be the issue.  G

Well GGG after $305.00 I picked up my mth BB a week ago last Friday let it sit idle until today.

 

what a drag right off the bat no smoke so turned sounds off fan running ok so add 10 drops of fluid nope nada not even a wisp.

so did the proverbial blow down the stack lips now full of smoke fluid and a ever so slight hint of smoke basically 5 minutes to get the normal max output of smoke.

 

okay so start to move it nope dirty track it shuts down remove power and scotch bright the track now BB is happy.

I start it at 4mph sounds are hit and miss at best advance to 6 mph better but is best at 8mph this thing would creep at 2mph prior to all main boards being replaced. it also seems to have a small jerkiness to it until around 6mph think this isn't a good sign either.

 

this must be my lemon it has the worst track record [pun intended] of any engines I own from mth since I bought it. so my questions are should this engine have all these issues after being repaired at a mth certified repair station?

I do plan on calling the tech and see if I can bring it back to him and see what it's problem is now.

as to smoke chuff another joke at best from the get go I have to blow down the stack to keep a steady smoke stream going.

 

I just wanted to update as to how things were going with it will update with hopefully a better outcome after the tech runs it and see what is wrong.

 

$oo

No it should run better than that.  Did he rebuild smoke unit too?  May have fan wired backwards, or blocked the port with the wick.  Should be smooth by 4SMPH.  G

GGG.... I talked to repair tech he said and I quote"

MT will tell you some boards the engines will be jerky and seem like laboring to move"

any thoughts you care to share on that?

The smoke unit I left running in idle he does want to see engine on that issue.
seems it has no smoke blow hard down the stack poof max smoke but starts to slowly stop out of stack at front then wafts for awhile then same on rear stack then no smoke at all hence another hard blow of air into stack and repeats itself thought if I left it run for 10 minutes it would clear itself!

As an idea is it possible the timing tape is dirty from smoke fluid or? causing the  engine to be Jerky and somewhat labored moving at 2-4&6 smph?

$oo

There is no reason for the boards to affect smooth running like that unless they're defective.  That's the first I've ever heard of such a claim.  Truthfully, if it's acting "labored" at the slower speeds, I'd suspect mechanical issues.  I do know that many MTH locomotives won't run smoothly until 4-5MPH, some do better than others at low speeds.  You should be able to turn the motors by hand through a complete rev of the drivers and not feel any significant difference in effort.  If you feel binding anywhere, that's a red flag.

 

Clearly, if the tach tape is dirty or smudged, that could affect the running, that's easy to check.

 

As far as smoke, the symptoms do suggest either the wick is not in place properly, or it's burned and doesn't wick enough oil to the smoke resistors.  The fan could be running backwards, but it actually smokes pretty good that way, just not the same volume as when it's wired properly.

 

 

 

Gunrunnerjohn..... seeing the wick is new and tested at shop and I ran it enough to see these issues on smoke.

I appreciate all input on this until I let the repair man do his thing I hesitate to go and remove boiler from engine in case something is wrong so I cannot be blamed.
$oo

What was the repair to the engine?  I don't think it should jerk after 3 for an OEM engine. You could have a worn out motor causing issues, this is a 2008 model.  But if it was running fine until the failure, if the boards were replaced and the correct sound file loaded, it should be back to how it ran originally.   G

GGG, the repair as I understand it stems from a short somewhere somehow and repair tech said it literally took out the entire board setup and so he went to MTH and was given I assume rebuilt boards. the steam whistle is same as it was prior to the board failure.

 

this all started with the smoke unit not smoking and degraded from there. I still think that connector from front lights with both metal parts protruding from it must have found its way to short something on smoke unit and or motor leads to smoke unit.

 

it wasn't running fine after the sounds and smoke unit stopped working it was same as it is now labored and jerky.

 

as to a mechanical issue I did find a traction tire not seated below the outer rim of drive wheel but that didn't help it.

 

I am seriously thinking on calling MTH direct as this sounds odd that MTH would say some engines with boards would act this way just doesn't sound right from a manufacturers view point.

 

this engine just might become a shelf queen yet.

 

I am taking this engine back to repair tech this saturday to see whats going on with it am hoping all will be remedied at that time.

 

$oo

I appreciate your reluctance to take it apart, probably a smart move until you exhaust the remedies with the shop that "fixed" it.

 

I will say that your smoke issue sure doesn't sound like a new wick was installed.  Of course, since the smoke unit is controlled by the PS/2 electronics, problems with the boards could be in play here.

 

I'll say again, if a board set causes "jerky" running with no mechanical issues, the board is broken!  That statement by the tech makes no sense and flies in the face of all logic.  You should be able to swap working boards into an engine at will without detecting any change in operation, assuming the engine was reset to the same state for testing.  If he tells you different, IMO he doesn't know what he's talking about.

 

Not to stir the pot more about this shop, but this is the same one that flat out told me that there was no way to fix my PS-1 locomotive because there are no chips available from MTH anymore (My locomotive had entered deselect.), and that there were no more PS-2 upgrade boards so I just had to buy a new locomotive.  Needless to say I haven't been back to the shop but once (They are the only local place to sell Atlas track and I wanted to see some in person.) since I learned they were full of it.  They also turned me away for a Lionel warranty repair saying I had to go back where I bought it.  The owner is a nice enough guy, but a die hard MTH latest and greatest fan so nothing else will ever due.  The worst part is, after next month he'll pretty much be the only decent local O gauge place in town as the other LHS is closing.

What do you mean by "sounds are hit and miss at best" - cutting in/out, changing volume, etc.?

 

No matter the speed, jerking or smooth, one symptom of a bad tach tape/sensor is loss of synchronized 4 sound chuffs (and 4 smoke puffs) per driver wheel revolution.  This should be spot-on every 1/4 turn of the wheel (assuming of course it's still set to 4 via the DCS remote).  So watch the wheel, side-rod action, or whatever for a few feet of motion. 

 

It may be hard to hear unless the audio volume is lowered but you should also hear the smoke fan motor start and stop ("zzzzt....zzzzt....zzzzt") with each audio chuff or every 1/4 turn of the driver wheel.

 

If you turn OFF smoke, does anything change?

 

So a full board set, based on a fault/short.  So did he find and fix that short?

 

It really is hard to say now, other than it should run smooth and smoke well.

 

Not sure what metal protrusion your talking about, 2 pins out of the connector, or the bracket attached to the smoke unit?

 

The tach Stan mentioned could also be the issue, maybe it is gapped too far, or the tach stripes are bad/dirty.

 

Your really in his hands now without incurring another bill.  G

Sinclair...... I know what you mean as last 2 times to that shop the owner seemed more interested in the computer.
As to repair tech I have my doubts as well that shop has had 2 prior repairmen  and not so great.

$oo

I'd suggest after you get this sorted out that you consider a different repair shop.

 

GGG..... The short or? happened at home he asked me what happened said 3 times remove boiler from frame.

on 3rd time a high pitched noise from speaker and that was that.

He tried to fix current board but said more bad parts and so new boards were best fix.

The connector I refer to is very close to smoke unit and stack area I want to say it was red? but it went to front headlight and marker lights.
The metal part of pins that wires attach to on the female end protrude beyond the end of molex connector and I think it somehow .. meaning myself wasn't put back where it belonged as it was last item I did before lowering boiler back onto frame.
that is when I think the short happened.
He said he couldn't find a cause and all checked out before and after new boards were installed.
I did talk to a mth tech today and he confirmed what you and
gunnerjohn said that it should run nice and smooth so at least I can relay that to the repairman.
The tech told me to re-oil all moving parts again and to check for bent or binding linkage.

I ran it for 15 minutes at 20 smph but oil no help and no noticeable binding parts.

As to smoke unit he rebuilt it and new wick after 9 minutes it stopped smoking blue in stack poof working again!
This engine has done this since new smokes until it tires of working.
I will update this after he looks at it this saturday.
This makes 4th or 5th smoke unit rebuild once this is in working order am thinking of making a Park  display for it on my layout LOL.

I appreciate all the help from you fine folks here on ogr forum. any new issues will ship to one of you on this forum I am giving up on local repair.

$oo

Well took imperial bb back to repairman said I could leave engine and he would look at it. seeing it was a return due to issues with both the rebuilt smoke unit and labored movement I truly felt that a good run and checking it out right then wasn't a out of line request but he had no intention of doing that so we walked away.
After that store owner came up was giving his thoughts on the smoke unit said all mth smoke units do what mine is doing and was due to only one outlet for smoke to feed both smoke stacks and as to poor running it too was a board issue.
I told him and repairman that I had called mth and asked one of there in house repair techs and he totally disagreed and the store owner basically said mth tells customers that all the time and tells the store owner and repair techs the opposite! and he also said the repair techs on this board were all wet so draw your own conclusions from that statement.

on a good note my wife says out loud  I just want to sell it as it has been a lemon since we bought it from this store! and an older gentleman spoke up and has given his handshake on a deal so next month this engine is going to a new home.

lesson store owner learned don't make my wife mad.

sinclair can relate to the LHS I was at all I can say is I have no intention of doing business with either one there ever again.
and unfortunately this has left a bad taste in our mouths.

$oo

I would expect nothing less from a guy that screwed up the repair in the first place and then gave you the whopper of a story about why it's running poorly.

 

Most of the time when I "rebuild" an MTH smoke unit, it consists of putting a new wick in, making sure the fan isn't hitting anything when it goes back together, and closing it up.  The MTH smoke unit is very simple, and they are the standard against which others are judged.  The "all MTH smoke units do that" statement is a total crock!

 

Of course, since we're all wet here, I guess you're stuck with him.

 

I just was running a Premier PS-3 Hudson on the test track.  It moved at 1 SMPH with no discernible jerking (just a hint of hesitation which you could expect at 1 SMPH).  At 2 it was fine.  That included reverse.  Would be interested to know what was wrong with yours, maybe the future owner will come to the forum asking for assistance...  G