MTH 30-1102 crossing gates and 2 MTH 45-1028 ITADs

I have not seen published detailed schematics of ITADs. 

If two ITADs control a crossing gate, you have the situation where they conflict (one ITAD triggered, other ITAD not-triggered).   One ITAD would be driving the gate down, the other would be driving the gate up ...  Do not pass Go, Do not collect $200!

One solution is a relay triggered when either (or both) ITAD is triggered.  You then hook up the NO and NC outputs of this relay to the crossing gates(s).   Refer to this posting.

Nickster99321 posted:

I have 2 sets of 30-1102 crossing gates and 2 45-1028 ITADs .
I am trying to use them in a large layout to have gates go down when train enters a track into a town in one direction , and also have one on other end of town do the same if train enters from opposite direction. If I had more detailed schematics of ITADs I might be able to figure it out. Can I get more detailed documents than supplied on web site or in packages with these devices.
Thanks,
Nick

Nick;

I have an interest in helping you solve your problem. I have a similar situation to yours.

I would like to be sure of what you are trying to do.

Is it the case you can only have 1 train entering the crossing zone at 1 of the ends of town?

Or, do you have 2 or more trains and therefore could have 1 train entering a crossing zone at one end of town and during that time when the crossing gate is down, you could have another train entering the crossing zone at the other end of town?

In other words do you need to be able to have the two crossing gates operate completely independently of each other?

I noticed you have the SCALETRAX version of the ITAD (MTH part no. 45-1028) as opposed to the REALTRAX version (40-1028)!

I have both and it seems to me the REALTRAX version (40-1028) is close to worthless.

Furthermore, I noticed you say you have crossing gates "30-1102". Are they instead "30-11012"?

MTH Part No. 30-1102 is an Engine: "4-8-2 L-3 Mohawk Steam Engine".

I'll wait for a reply before I continue.

Ray Leiter

stan2004 posted:

I have not seen published detailed schematics of ITADs. 

If two ITADs control a crossing gate, you have the situation where they conflict (one ITAD triggered, other ITAD not-triggered).   One ITAD would be driving the gate down, the other would be driving the gate up ...  Do not pass Go, Do not collect $200!

One solution is a relay triggered when either (or both) ITAD is triggered.  You then hook up the NO and NC outputs of this relay to the crossing gates(s).   Refer to this posting.

stan2004;

I wonder if you may have misunderstood nickster99321?

Ray

I await clarification from the OP.

It is a "classic" wiring problem to have two (or more) ITADs (MTH) or 153IRs (Lionel) sensing both approaches to a crossing gate.  This also applies to "contactor" occupancy sensors.

You would only be able to use one sensor and one crossing gate on each side of the tracks in this situation.

It would be very difficult or impossible to use two sensors to control two crossing gates.

Andrew

RayL posted:

Nickster99321 posted:

I have 2 sets of 30-1102 crossing gates and 2 45-1028 ITADs .
I am trying to use them in a large layout to have gates go down when train enters a track into a town in one direction , and also have one on other end of town do the same if train enters from opposite direction. If I had more detailed schematics of ITADs I might be able to figure it out. Can I get more detailed documents than supplied on web site or in packages with these devices.
Thanks,
Nick

Nick;

I have an interest in helping you solve your problem. I have a similar situation to yours.

I would like to be sure of what you are trying to do.

Is it the case you can only have 1 train entering the crossing zone at 1 of the ends of town?

Yes only one train at a time entering town track with crossing gates.

Or, do you have 2 or more trains and therefore could have 1 train entering a crossing zone at one end of town and during that time when the crossing gate is down, you could have another train entering the crossing zone at the other end of town?

In other words do you need to be able to have the two crossing gates operate completely independently of each other?

no, gates only enter when a single train enters town from either end of town with ITAD at each end of town.

I noticed you have the SCALETRAX version of the ITAD (MTH part no. 45-1028) as opposed to the REALTRAX version (40-1028)!

I have both and it seems to me the REALTRAX version (40-1028) is close to worthless.

Furthermore, I noticed you say you have crossing gates "30-1102". Are they instead "30-11012"?

yes Ray typo thanks for correcting it 

MTH Part No. 30-1102 is an Engine: "4-8-2 L-3 Mohawk Steam Engine".

I'll wait for a reply before I continue.

Ray Leiter

 

Ray I answered inline, not sure you will see it correctly so here it is again:

RayL posted:
Nickster99321 posted:
I have 2 sets of 30-1102 crossing gates and 2 45-1028 ITADs .
I am trying to use them in a large layout to have gates go down when train enters a track into a town in one direction , and also have one on other end of town do the same if train enters from opposite direction. If I had more detailed schematics of ITADs I might be able to figure it out. Can I get more detailed documents than supplied on web site or in packages with these devices.
Thanks,
Nick

Nick;

I have an interest in helping you solve your problem. I have a similar situation to yours.

I would like to be sure of what you are trying to do.

Is it the case you can only have 1 train entering the crossing zone at 1 of the ends of town?

Yes only one train at a time entering town track with crossing gates.

Or, do you have 2 or more trains and therefore could have 1 train entering a crossing zone at one end of town and during that time when the crossing gate is down, you could have another train entering the crossing zone at the other end of town?

In other words do you need to be able to have the two crossing gates operate completely independently of each other?

no, gates only  go down  when a single train enters town from either end of town with ITAD at each end of town.

I noticed you have the SCALETRAX version of the ITAD (MTH part no. 45-1028) as opposed to the REALTRAX version (40-1028)!

I have both and it seems to me the REALTRAX version (40-1028) is close to worthless.

Furthermore, I noticed you say you have crossing gates "30-1102". Are they instead "30-11012"?

yes Ray typo thanks for correcting it

MTH Part No. 30-1102 is an Engine: "4-8-2 L-3 Mohawk Steam Engine".

I'll wait for a reply before I continue.

Ray Leiter

 Thanks Ray in advance !

Relay method described earlier:

If the $10 or so cost of external relay is too much, and one is comfortable tinkering within the electronics, I'm confident multiple ITADs can be linked.  In other words there is one ITAD that is connected to the crossing gate(s).  Additional ITADs would "talk" to this master ITAD telling the master to activate its relay when the remote ITAD detects a train.

I'd have to see the guts of an ITAD but I figure it should take less than 50 cents in components per additional ITAD to link it to the master ITAD.

Thankyou Stan2004, and others that jumped in, I understand using the relay, I will buy one and do as suggested basically each ITAD is triggering the relay which controls the gates , so if train enters from east or from west it will be sensed by ITAD and trigger crossing gates 

Nick; (For your information)

Here is what I did. I did not use a relay (i.e. not external to the ITAD).

I did this with my RealTrax ITAD (40-1028) -- not my ScaleTrax ITAD (45-1028), but it would work the same.

I connected a 14 V source to BOTH the AUX Pwr. connections of the ITAD and the Black & Red wires of the Gate.

I connected the YELLOW wire of the Gate to the Normally Open (NO) screw of the ITAD (RAISE GATE).

I connected the WHITE wire of the Gate to the Normally Closed (NC) screw of the ITAD (LOWER GATE).

When an object is in the 'view' of the ITAD, the Gate lowers.

As long as the object is in 'view' of the ITAD, the Gate remains lowered.

When that object leaves the 'view' of the ITAD, the delay begins.

When the delay expires, the Gate raises.

I did not use the Blue wire on the ITAD.

I measured the resistance between the RED & BLUE wires of the ITAD -- it read .2 - .3 Ohms.

The BLUE wire is electrically the same as the RED wire.

I did not measure the current draw of the Gate, so I don't know how close I am to the ITAD relay contact rating.

This is how I intend to use this crossing setup on my layout.

Ray

@Nickster99321 posted:

I have 2 sets of 30-1102 crossing gates and 2 45-1028 ITADs .
I am trying to use them in a large layout to have gates go down when train enters a track into a town in one direction , and also have one on other end of town do the same if train enters from opposite direction. If I had more detailed schematics of ITADs I might be able to figure it out. Can I get more detailed documents than supplied on web site or in packages with these devices.
Thanks,
Nick

Hi Nick

was reading this part of the form and i'm trying to get two simple gates to work, with 2 ITAD's. was wondering if you every got yours to work ? I saw the hookup that was suggested, but i have only two wires coming from each gate, there the 254 lionel types.

i'm not sure where to hookup the wire from the second ITAD to the first or master on...

thank you

samc