MTH Firehouse Issue

If I was a guessing person, I would bet on interlock. The concept that the machine has to be in the correct state FIRST- BEFORE you can activate. It something is jammed or one of the end limit location switches is not hit to the expected start position- then it will NEVER work. This is the most basic way all of these animated MTH accessories work.

The expected state is- Truck fully back into the building, the garage door closed, and the fireman all the way up.While the controller and electronics attempts to reach this state- even the door is interlocked to the movement of the truck- in other words, it must first open the door- then attempt to move the truck in or out, then close the door.

Also, there are 2 different versions of the electronics- the function is basically the same, just updated electronics so it's important to know the model number of your version and or any pictures you can provide.

https://ogrforum.com/...h-fire-house-failure

https://ogrforum.com/...erating-fire-house-1

Vernon, thanks for the reply. I have the City Fire Department 234 Engine Company version. It looks like the firemen is an inch or so down the pole so I'm guessing I'll have to dismantle the unit to see if I can reset it.

@MorgoNJ posted:

Vernon, thanks for the reply. I have the City Fire Department 234 Engine Company version. It looks like the firemen is an inch or so down the pole so I'm guessing I'll have to dismantle the unit to see if I can reset it.

The motor should be trying to return it back up- but again find out why. Is the motor jammed, the gearbox jammed, is the system waiting on another one of the motors to reach a position before this one?

You can unplug the wiring at the board and then use a simple 9V battery to attempt to run each motor. Again, I would not backfeed the board- but if the wiring is unplugged you can just touch a 9V to the motor terminals.

The manual covers the screw locations https://mthtrains.com/sites/de...ction/30as17490i.pdf

I ran into what sounds like the same issue earlier this year with a new/ old stock MTH firehouse and operating gas station.  I found the grease they used in the gear boxes had coagulated into a sticky mess over 20+ years.  I ended up dissembling/ cleaning / resembling the gear boxes and they all run good as new.  I recommend taking a lot of pictures to reference as you go.  MTH did have replacements in stock if you want something more plug and play.

@BroadBrush posted:

I ran into what sounds like the same issue earlier this year with a new/ old stock MTH firehouse and operating gas station.  I found the grease they used in the gear boxes had coagulated into a sticky mess over 20+ years.  I ended up dissembling/ cleaning / resembling the gear boxes and they all run good as new.  I recommend taking a lot of pictures to reference as you go.  MTH did have replacements in stock if you want something more plug and play.

Thanks for the suggestion. Removing the primary base revealed a sticky mess on the gears that move the firetruck and door. I removed and cleaned those and the station will now open the door and move the firetruck. However, the fireman still doesn't move so it looks like I need to pull the entire structure apart to get at the motor that drives him up and down the pole. One additional issue I'm finding is the moment power is supplied the lights all go on... the red alarm lights flash and the door goes into operation. That is suggesting I must have a wiring issue in the unit as I don't need to trigger the action through the activation switch. Like you, I'm unpacking new/old accesories to place on my layout. Next up is the Car Wash and Gas Station. If each needs the same care, I'm in trouble and my grandsons will be disappointed.

No, incorrect assessment. The reason the lights come on and the motors move- the system always tries to go to the parking position as I described upon first power up.

Typically in machines- we call this homing- moving to the "home" position.

@Vernon Barry posted:

The motor should be trying to return it back up- but again find out why. Is the motor jammed, the gearbox jammed, is the system waiting on another one of the motors to reach a position before this one?

You can unplug the wiring at the board and then use a simple 9V battery to attempt to run each motor. Again, I would not backfeed the board- but if the wiring is unplugged you can just touch a 9V to the motor terminals.

The manual covers the screw locations https://mthtrains.com/sites/de...ction/30as17490i.pdf

Thanks again Vernon, the gears on the primary truck aparatus were indeed stuck and the sensors don't seem quite alighned properly. That's taking some trial and error to get correct. Per my follow-up response to BroadBrushB, it appears I now have to delve deeper into the firehouse mechanics to see why the fireman is stuck.

Again, the lesson to be learned is BOTH the carwash and the gas station work the same way. When first powered they attempt to go to their home positions if not sensed that all switches are in the homed position.

The car wash, the door in the garage must first open before any car movement is allowed, then the car runs around to the parking position in the front and the door closes- because then it knows the car is in the parking position.

The gas station- same rules- the garage door opens first, then the attempt to move the car into the garage, then the garage door closes.

@Vernon Barry posted:

No, incorrect assessment. The reason the lights come on and the motors move- the system always tries to go to the parking position as I described upon first power up.

Typically in machines- we call this homing- moving to the "home" position.

Okay, not he wiring. I understand the "home" position you're articulating, but then trying to find the correct starting position. Should I assume that position is so neither activation contact is in contact with the gear? I had assumed one would be.

No, again it's a total state or condition. In other words, ALL switches must be in the expected starting position. If any single one is not in the expected state, the machine cycles and since these have garage doors- that cycle includes first opening the door before vehicle movement because machine is assuming a wildcard state.

In the case of the carwash, because the parking home position is mid distance down the front straight and there is slack in the chain, many times after the car might have been in that position to trigger the switch when powered off last, it's no longer triggering that switch now when you power the system the next day- so the machine cycles with no sounds until it again achieves the starting state.

The gas station and the fire house both use a long arm and gear, and have slightly less slack so they may stay "homed" between one day to the next. That said, again, say things relax or get bumped or the last cycle ended not at the home position, then the next time that accessory is powered- it cycles with no sound to get to the homed state.

Because your fire man is in the wrong position it is doing this, though I must admit why it full works if the man doesn't move is interesting.

The switch are fixed position by screws with maybe a little wiggle room.  Get the fireman motor working and see what happens.  G

I’m sorry but I don’t understand your suggestion. Yes, the station assumes the fire truck is in the garage; it’s not. So while I can occasionally get the station door to open and close nothing else happens. I’ve dismantled the entire station, cleaned it and put it back together with no improvement.

Normally, if you removed power in the middle of a sequence and functions like door, truck, man were in wrong position.   The next time you applied power the circuit board would move truck, doors, man into starting position then shut off.  Now when you initiate operation the sequence will work.

Lights and such are separate power.  You do not have to power them for testing operating function.

Manually move everything into starting position with limit switches engaged.  Then test it.  See what functions and what doesn't.

Boards do go bad, in that transistor for driving a motor fails, sometimes the processor fails.  Sometimes the board fails because a motor is bad and draws too much current.

I though you mentioned man had moved but stuck. G

GGG, Thanks for your continued suggestions, but I'm having no success with the accessories I purchased years ago and stored away for installation now that I have the time. Having to clean sticky grease from gears is understandable but there's little chance the boards have failed without use or power spikes. Will begin looking for a NJ-based MTH authorized repair shop to see if they can be easily restored to working order.

Hi I'm an ASC TECH for MTH and I'm in new Jersey! I can help you! send me an email!

Alan

Authorized Service Center, typically a train dealer who also sponsored and was authorized as a trained repair center meaning they could do warranty repairs officially, but also that they were trained and used official MTH parts and methods (for out of warranty repairs paid for by the customer).

Of course... silly me. Just proves I've been retired too long. Used to live by acronyms.

@MorgoNJ posted:

GGG, Thanks for your continued suggestions, but I'm having no success with the accessories I purchased years ago and stored away for installation now that I have the time. Having to clean sticky grease from gears is understandable but there's little chance the boards have failed without use or power spikes. Will begin looking for a NJ-based MTH authorized repair shop to see if they can be easily restored to working order.

You would be surprised.  You did power it up and if motor stuck excess current draw.  These boards are pretty primitive.  G

ASC tech is a qualified technician that was trained by MTH!

Alan