MTH has cancelled the Pershing Tanks on flats

well, so much for getting them for my oldest son's birthday.

Bummer!  I was planning to get the six-car set. 

But, nothing really surprises me anymore when it comes to what we will or will not actually see produced in the world of toy trains.

I'll just have to get some Die-Cast Direct or other models and outfit some flats myself.  No big deal.

Stuff typically gets cancelled for one of two reason:  insufficient dealer orders (usually the case) or brand licensing issues (i.e., the devil is ALWAYS in the details with regard to T's&C's for the use of third-party logos and such).  The product mentioned here is quite likely a very niche product for what is already an admittedly niche market (i.e., toy trains in general).  Not surprised on this one... and it's actually something I was surprised to see cataloged in the first place.  But it sounds like some folks already have "Plan B" in place, which is always a good thing in these times. 

David

Toy trains are all about Plan B

I wonder why they are able to make the Sherman and not the Pershing tanks?  I have several other military flats I'm working on, so it's no big deal.  I am curious though as to why the Shermans worked out, and are even re-cataloged in a weathered offering in the current catalog?

I guess they're way of thinking is : "B" happy with what you get . I think todays catalogs are alot of wasted ink.

David

There is always having special run like the Natty Boh cars done by a manufacturer...  OH WAIT! 

Seriously, though...  A friend did a custom run of a particular Ann Arbor car and though he had mixed results, I was sure glad he did it.  I bet a "project" like this one would sell enough to make it worthwhile.

As Allan has pointed out, there are a number of excellent diecast military vehicles and tanks available from other sources. Flat cars can easily be re-painted in OD or camo and decaled. 

Truer words could not have been spoken, especially for those who have internet access. I'm willing to bet that many of the pages in the current Lionel and MTH catalogs are a waste of ink and paper.

The Sherman tank is popular due to it being associated with WWII and victory for the Western Allies, while just about every tank produced since is more obscure, having never really proved their battlefield worth like the Sherman.

The tank flats have been popular in our area, so I'm wondering if they simply could not get the tanks.

I would like to see MTH do a 6 car set of half tracks

This is from their facebook page....

The tanks that they include on their flats are undersized anyway, they are almost the same width as the flatcars.  The tracks should have a fair amount of overhang from the flatcar sides.

There is the answer.

I had them ordered also, there are many other military vehicles to be made, half tracks, Duce and a halfs, Priest, Grants, jeeps, on and on. I like to see MTH put out a six pack of plain old 40' and 50' no load flat cars, I have lots of military stuff to pop on them.

The various marks of M4s were a match for all of the equivalent various Panzer marks (i.e. if you pair them up in time, rather than put an early Sherman up against a late, long gun Panzer IV). 

In any case, the Sherman was not designed to combat tanks; that was the work for Tank Destroyers, the M10, M18, M36.  That decision was an organizational mistake, not a design mistake.

The Pershing  was not really a stop-gap:  a US heavy tank could have been in the field in '43 or '44 had the Army felt the need for one.  Logistically, it was rejected for want of numbers, far more critical to US doctrine than protection/tank killing.

MTH's shermans are dead on. A sherman is 8'7" wide. The tracks on the MTH model are 2 and 1/16" (8'3"), the body hangs over that. 

Here's a picture next to a Tamiya 1:48 M10 (which is on an M4 frame), its the same. The only major beef I have with MTHs model are those silly oversize blocks attached to the flat car to hold the tank.

Gee,

I had planned on buying two of the cars and then adding some Tamiya 1/48 scale Pershings to other flats i have.  Oh well.  I guess I will keep building M2 Bradleys, LAV-25's, M1A1 Abrams and Humvees and putting them on Weaver 50 ft flats  or 50 ft ones I converted to 60 ft cars.   I will post some photos on buy sell forum soon. 

Bad news, I guess Mike isn't a veteran.  Planned on a few to display in new living room area.  This means those older tanks w/flat cars that do show up on auctions will be that much more expensive.

TEX

Steve

I may also go with the weathered Shermans although I did not pre-order that set.  That's assuming, of course, that they also don't get canceled.  In today's world of toy trains, it's always a bit of a crap shoot.  Shouldn't be that way because you would like to think that these manufacturers have a better handle on what they are doing, but it is what it is.

Allan, I feel your prediction that the Shermans will be cancelled will ultimately come true.

Charlie I too found out from our LHS that the Pershings were getting cancelled. Very disappointing.

For those of you that are truly familiar with the Shermans that MTH uses on their flats then you will know that they are true 1:48 scale tanks (yes John Korling, they are to scale) manufactured by Hobbymaster. When MTH announced the Pershings I asked them through their Facebook page if they would be true 1:48 scale similar to the Hobbymaster Sherman's they had used in the past. I knew Hobbymaster was already producing the Pershing in their 1:72 scale line, and I didn't want 1:72 scale tanks to show up on my flats. MTH responded to me that they would be 1:48 scale, but in a terse format, like I was not supposed to know that they weren't MTH's tanks and that they were manufactured by Hobbymaster. (the tanks don't have manufacturer's markings on the bottom)

In comparison to the Shermans that Corgi (1:50 scale) has made over the years the Hobbymaster's are slightly larger (1:48). The Hobbymaster's are also made of a combination of diecast and plastic, whereas  the Corgi's are almost all diecast.

Hobbymaster models are very well done and their separate sale Shermans usually command near $50.00 a piece, and are therefore a good price when purchased with MTH's flats.

While I know Hobbymaster is still producing some WWII military items in 1:48, they seem to have shifted most of the Armor production to 1:72. I am assuming they must feel 1:72 is a better scale to market to war gamers.

Perhaps they will do a special run of Shermans for MTH, or perhaps they are going to run separate tanks for separate sale. This would economically be better for both parties as they already have the tooling for the Shermans.

Lastly, my opinion is that these tanks on flats sell well in all markets (agreeing with Jim1939) as I hardly see any for sale. When I do see the flats w/ tanks for sale they do carry a premium price.

Here is a link to their website. I purchased the last round of Shermans on flats that MTH made which all had the tank with "The Houston Kid II" name on the side.

http://www.hobbymaster.com.hk/

Craig we should get some of our military stuff out at my place in June.

Sounds great! We will rebuild the Arsenal of Democracy at 1:48! Makes sense, we are in Detroit.

A bit off topic, but as a small kid around 1952 or 1953 I lived in a small town in northern PA (Kane, McKean Co.) which had a small train yard that was directly behind my grandmother's house.  One day a  consist of flatcars with Sherman tanks (at least I think they were Shermans) were parked there for a couple days and we kids just had the greatest time climbing on and getting inside those tanks.  One of my best memories.    Guess I should try to add a couple of the flatcars to my growing collection. 

Sorry to hear of the cancellation, I had a set on order.

And so what if Mike's not a vet, that has little to do with this.

Since the tanks were being made by another company that cancelled, Mike has no option here.

And Yes, I too would likke a 6 pack of Duece and a halfs or Half Tracks or Howitzers

****, I'd buy all three. And WWII Army jeeps too, not the modern stuff, I don't run modern.

Actually, has absolutely nothing to do with it.  MTH has made more U.S. Army stuff in recent years than the rest of the manufacturers combined.  I know, because I own most all of it and have more on the way.

And lest I be accused of picking favorites, I also have all the U.S. Army stuff I can get my hands on (more recent production) from Lionel, Weaver, K-Line, RMT, and probably one or two others.

And now I have to Take issue with the Editor. You get to see all our Pic's every week on Scott's photo fun thread. and all the nice pic's and layouts in the magazine. But I can't recall any of your stuff as of late?????????? Maybe some of all the U.S. Army collection or the Alaska RR that I know your fond of?????? LOL.

With the average age of the O scale hobbyist any manufacturer worth 2 grains of his salt knows there's a market for military items. MTH knows that. If they canceled it , I would say they didn't have a choice this particular time.. I don't think it had anything to do with Mike not being a veteran.

David

SHERMANS WERE CALLED RONSON BURNERS BY THEIR CREWS IN WW2 AFTER THE CIGERETTE LIGHTERS.they were totally out of their league when against a tiger or panther

tank-crews used to attach bed springs and sand bags to the front armor.

solido and corgi produced nice ww2 armor in 1/50 diecast scale several years ago.there are a couple 1/50th scale us armor on ebay-all you need is a flatcar painted oive drab.

when the german loaded tiger tanks on flatcars that had to change tank treads.they had

to place narrow tank treads for placing the tank onto a  flatcar then upon unloading them they placed  the tank on the famous wider tracks.

try these sites for corgi diecast

www.flyingmule.com

www.squadron.com

www.greatmodels.com

they have links to other model stores

hope i can help

All in good time, David.  My home layout is not ready for prime time yet, but there will be photos in the magazine when it gets to that point.  My main goal with the magazine is to devote the limited amount of editorial space we have to the fine work others produce, not to show off my more modest efforts.  And I rarely take and/or post photos on the forum for much the same reason.  I assist in moderating the forum and do participate in threads here, but it's primarily a place for other folks to share what they are doing with the hobby. 

Hey your a train guy like us. Every layout big or small is worth mention...it's why we're here. The fun of playing with trains.

David

They also cancelled the #840 Power Station for the second time. This item was due last month & they just announced now it was cancelled. That really sucks. Why would they wait until the month after it was scheduled to ship to cancel. Surely, they knew a few months ago this wasn't going to be a go.

Sorry Craig & Boilermaker, I was thinking of the M1 Abrams tanks that MTH came out with previously; those were definitely undersize (approx. 1/56 scale).

A totally inappropriate statement that I regret making.  It has nothing what ever to do with manufacturing military trains, a stupid mistake on my part.

TEX

Steve

Nothing to be sorry about John, and yes your right the Abrams were much smaller. I think your right at 1:56 or some weird scale like that. I wish someone would make one in 1:48. The Abrams to me is still the premier modern tank on the planet. If you ever catch any shows on Discovery or the Military channel that highlight this tank, it is amazing!

Sorry John, I just read my post again and I guess I sounded short, was just trying to state that they were 1:48 and was also irritated at MTH at the moment.