MTH or Lionel for Kids First Set

FlaglerSystem;

There are actually pluses and minuses with either brand.  In the area of starter sets, you actually get "more bang for your buck" with MTH starter sets because they come equiped with ProtoSound2 which gives your kids something to grow into.  I'm sure that others will chime in on this because you can find good reasons to go either way.  But, ultimately, the decision is up to you.

We started off with the Lionel Hudson so many years ago. As we were children, the Lionel held up very well to the abuse.

 

If Children are to be introduced, I would get a Lionel. They are simply bullet proof, crash proof, step proof etc etc etc.

It depends on the kids and what they're interested in.  It also depends on your budget.  Lionel has Thomas (at least for now).  They also have Harry Potter and the Polar Express.  I think kids have an easier time "connecting" with these sets than steam or diesel sets which are less familiar to them.  I also like FasTrack better than the MTH product.  That being said, MTH sets do give you command control, better transformers and are (I think) a bit more durable.

 

Just an observation about the ages of the kids...  In my experience, the 7y.o. will be interested in different things than the younger kids and his/her motor skills will be better developed.  If the budget permits, maybe the older child could handle a more advanced train set and the younger ones something more like Thomas.  Each kid having "Their" train might make things more fun.

 

I believe gunrunnerjohn added command control to his Lionel Thomas, so stuff can be upgraded at home.

 

Bottom line is to get what they like.  That's what it is all about.

The MTH starter sets come with all the bells and whistles (literally) that the big kid stuff does, and its all command control, so if they actually get into it, then you're already good to go. The railking engines can pull just about anything you put behind them (possibly including small child ). The lionel starter sets just run off a transformer (conventional control), and a lot of them (if not all of them) are no where near the level of lionel's high dollar items. 

If you want bang for the buck, MTH is the way to go.

I love Lionel but they aren't all diecast and indestructible.  Those Thomas sets are plastic and they do break.

I don't have any experience with MTH, so I can't answer for them, but the Lionel starter sets are great.

I have the NYC flyer set, and it is a really good fun set. The 0-8-0 steamer is bullet-proof, and runs beautifully. The smoke works fine as soon as you get over 50% throttle, and at anything near light-speed it puffs away famously. Also, it won't come off the track at full speed. This might be handy with youngsters at the controls.   The helicopter launcher is great fun, and gives endless surprise to unsuspecting visitors. The sound on that set is pretty good too, although it might be worth waiting a little while until the 2012 set hits the shops, as that has the new Railsounds RTR system.

i bought this set mainly for the locomotive, and all of the rest is a bonus. I'm 100% happy with it.

MTH ... aside from the better construction and reliability there are more features .. WAY more for your dollar..

Like what was stated above, each brand has their own pluses and negatives.  Why not go with a Williams set, purchase a good transformer and what track you want to use and start there.  Williams are well known for reliability, ruggedness and reasonable pricing.  How can you lose. 

 

I hope the great inputs from forum members will help you decide.

 

TEX

Steve

Good suggestions, all.

 

More info:  All of the kids grew up with Thomas.  The youngest, my son, is FIXATED on trains - it doesn't matter - Thomas, whatever.  His favorite video is "All Aboard!" a movie made for kids that is just basically 29 minutes, 56 seconds of trains of all kinds.  How do I know the exact length of it?  Because he asks to watch it multiple times per day, LOL. 

 

My 5 y/o step-daughter probably won't be interested but my step-son who is 7 and my own son (the youngest) will probably be OK with whatever.  He was absolutely fixated with the Amtrack diesel at the train shop but he also enjoyed playing with the wooden Thomas railroad they had set up there, which is a lot like the one we have for him at home.

 

I like the idea of not purchasing a starter set as I'm sure there will be plenty of junk I don't necessarily need or want.  My thought there was that sometimes starter sets are a good loss-leader.  At least as a kid, I remember it was cheaper if you wanted to get another transformer, to buy a whole set, than to try to order just the transformer.  Of course, that was before the days of Ebay and E-commerce.

 

Thanks for the suggestions so far.

What is Williams?  I will have to read up on them.

I thought the various launching/activity type things that Lionel offers might be fun for the kids.  I guess all of this stuff interacts?  I.e. if I get the Lionel sawmill set-up, it will plug into MTH track or whatever?

There is no question in my mind, MTH offers more bang for the buck, and more quality in its starter sets. You can even measure the locomotives by weight and construction, and you will find the MTH to be more substantial.

In addition to what others have said, the MTH starter sets also have a better transformer.  The only downside to the MTH sets, IMHO, is the track system.  Lionel's FasTrack is much easier to use and holds up better if the track will be taken apart and put together again often.  I've used both systems, and I won't bother with my RealTrax any more.  Some shops will swap out track and sell the MTH sets with FasTrack, so you may want to ask if that is a possibility.

 

The Lionel sets are still good fun, so don't dismiss them too quickly.  I also think that you should let the kids help in deciding what features they want - the play value is what it is all about.  Also think about getting some extra gondolas and flat cars to go along with the set, as kids love to add their own loads to haul around on their railroad.

 

Andy

 

The accessories do work together well.  Depending on which one you get and what track system you use, you may have to modify a piece or two of track to get things to fit.

 

Don't forget that both FasTrack and RealTrax have adapter pieces that go to O-31 tubular.  Using those it is pretty easy to connect the different brands of track.  I did this for a long time when I was running my tour d' basement loop.  It had maybe 25% RealTrax and the rest was tubular because it was a LOT cheaper.

I would definitely seek the kids' opinions as they may have their hearts set on a steam engine, a diesel, or Thomas. If you get one that is not what they envisioned the train to be, they may be disappointed. My guess is that you want the train that they will play with the most. With my kids (D4 and S2), I let them run anything I own, including trains with horns, bells, smoke, etc. and they both always want the Thomas, which only has a whistle, no bell, no light, and no smoke. The best thing about the Thomas is that I don't have to hover over the transformer to prevent a runaway train crash. Thomas can go at full throttle and never derail. My 2 year old loves being the only one at the controls - making us deaf by holding the whistle button down loop after loop!

If I were buying a set for a kid I wasn't planning on spending much time with, I'd get him a conventional set (Lionel or Williams).  Simpler, straightforward, less to go wrong.

 

I got my own kids MTH starter sets.... they are a good bang for the buck.   The PS2 features do increase the "fun factor" (even operating with a conventional transformer... sounds, remote uncoupling, speed control, etc.).  I knew I'd be around to "re-set" the engine if things got goofy, or get it repaired it something went wrong with the electronics (so far so good 3 1/2 years in).  The rolling stock is very nice (for starter level) and as others have noted, the transformers are top notch.

 

Only downside to the MTH sets, as others have mentioned, is the track.  Realtrax is good if your going to nail it down & leave it, but if you're going to be moving it around much, especially with "help" from the kids, Fastrack is a better option.   

 

If you go the option of building your own set, you may want to check out RMT (readymadetoys.com).  They have some neat items that are ideal for younger kids, and have had really good deals lately (search on this site for details).

This will definitely be a supervised-play item where we will be spending time together working at it.

It will be a permanent fixture on the train table at least until it is time to remove the table and move someday when we get a bigger house or whatever. 

 

I will check out that website, thanks!

 

Don't hate me, but I had even thought of getting the Titanic set.  I started out with a Life-Like Campbell's Soup "theme" train in HO scale that my parents had when I was a kid.    It was silly and colorful but I still have great memories of it.  I could have cared less about road names for many years until I got into N-Scale.  I really didn't develop a preference until I lived in Florida for a bit and discovered the FEC. 

Well, I like the idea of the MTH with the PS/2, since you're getting a more capable locomotive to start out.  I also agree with the comments about RealTrax, that stuff is total junk IMO.

Boy, this is a tough question to answer. I love MTH starter sets because they are built so well and the DCS system along with their Commander is hard to say no to.

 

But then Lionel with it's cool theme sets and Fast Track is a big pluss to a young family starting out in the hobby.

 

Oh well all things considered, even though I'm a big fan of the MTH product line, after reading your kids likes above I would say start with the Lionel line and grow into MTH.

 

I would let the kids look at both lines and watch to see what puts a spark in their eyes.

 

When I was a boy of 13 my father, who was a taylor/designer made me a beautiful suit for Easter. I wonted some cheep crap from one of the local department stores by the name of Robert Halls. I'm telling you this was a suit that men offered my dad big bucks to make for them and guess what, I hated it! What a little twit I was, but that is what kids are like. They wont what makes their eyes light up.

Well, at least one person will buy the Titanic set The Lionel sets and I imagine any set for that matter is much cheaper than buying peice-meal. The Lionel 0-8-0s or Polar Express Berks are probably the best starter engines you can get. For sure the Fastrack is the best track system to start with. All that being said, Williams makes the simplist most rugged engine out there right now. You are doing the right thing, arm yourself with knowledge and then buy what appeals to you. Do not let your LHS sell you something simply becuase they have it in stock.

buy the mth set and swap out the track for lionel's fastrack......................rogerw.

I will go with the Majority and say you will want Fast Trax.

 

I happen to use a bit of Realtrax myself, it is a permanent installation.

 

If you visited Ebay, you can see easily that Fast Track sells and Real Trax accumulates at lower and lower prices.

Boilermaker is 100% correct, the MTH starter sets have always been the best bank for the buck. I am very interested to see the new LIONEL Thomas the tank RC set and see how well it holds up, it may be a contender for Lionel in the beginner sets.

I DO LIKE THAT BOTH COMPANIES ARE ACTIVELY GETTING KIDS INVOLVED AT A HIGHER PACE!

Hopefully, we'll be making one lucky kid happy this weekend as we're giving away a new starter set (with proto-3 to boot) as part of the MTH See it/Hold it/Run it promotion. MTH starter sets are more expensive, but there's added value in the sounds and command control built into the units.

 

By the way, the 4-6-0 UP Steam locomotive in the set is a lot nicer than previous units. The side-rods are blackened as are the driver tires. Good looking engine.

 

A good starter set gives a much better and longer lasting impression than a poor quality starter set.

I have Williams engines,Lionel,and MTH and I enjoy all of them for different reasons. I think getting a child started in the hobby and hopefully a lifetime in it I would go with an MTH set. The sound,smoke and features are a way better bang for the buck and will keep their attention even after the newness has worn off.

They both make good sets. I would go with one of the flyer sets with sound. MTH has announced that they are planning to outsource their repairs so don't count on them in the long haul. You live in the I love MTH neighborhood so a Lionel set would be bucking the system...

Jim,  Can you explain this comment?  What was the announcement?  Who do you think the outsource is? Why do you think you can't count on them?  Please be specific, I am interested in understanding.  Thank you.  G

Ok Mike wants independent repair centers. He said that was their plan to outsource repairs. My comment about not depend meant the customer may not be able to take his repair directly to MTH in the future. But ship it to a repair center. I hope you did note that I said Both company's make good sets. Thank you.

I am going to shows and buying a lot to 1950's cheep cars.  Then add some FT. a W 44T, see if I can get a Cab-1/PowerMaster, and see what the child does with it.

 

With some sort of remote, the parent can take the controller away when the time is not right to play, depending on the child's age! 

I gave my grandchildren Rail King sets. My granddaughter has a bumper trolley with extra Real Trax to make a loop around the Christmas tree. My grandsons have Rail King steam sets. I would suggest starting the kids out with a locomotive that is easy to put on the tracks such as an 0-4-0 or bumper trolley.

I have three letters for you MTH!!!!!!!!!! Lionel engines do not pull as much and the Lionel stuff these days is pure garbage! I feel cheated how much I spent on Lionel and how poor the quality. The Lionel Legacy requires a lot of stuffwhich is a lot of money and for heaven sakes MTH has full command built in and it even comes Witt the remote! There dcs is easy to use and you can even power mth tmcc. MTH has far more detail and features.

Back to the original discussion...

 

I would recommend a Fastrack loop with a few extra pieces for figure 8, etc.  A Z-1000 transformer - pretty much gets along with everything.  A Williams or RMT locomotive - price is right, indestructible.  I have my grand nephew set up with a few Beeps on 2 Fastrack loops with 2 manual switches, and he has a great time.  The Beeps go fast, but not fast enough to spin off the track...Williams adds sound, but they do run fast with a full throttle. (series motor mod)

 

I have mostly MTH Railking PS2, but think they are a little easier to mess up the electronics with kids. A long repair wait will be tough on the kids if something does go bad.  Haven't been able to kill an RMT or a Williams, yet!

 

I wish that MTH had the option of Z-1000 or Mini-DCS with their starter sets.  I've tried both and like the Z-1000 better, plus a Z1000 will run other brands, a Mini-DCS kinda limits what you can run to MTH PS2-3.  The change from a 100 watt Z-1000 plus brick to Mini-DCS with a 50 watt brick, is a lot like a $40 price increase on starter sets.

 

I agree with Bobby's "easy to put on the track" suggestion.

 

Just my opinion based on my experiences,

 

Ed

Unfortunately, I fear that your hopes have been dashed!  

I fail to see why some always feel the need to trash any other brand than their preferred one. All of the trains available in starter sets today are far more detailed, and have many more features than those of even a few years ago. Whichever brand you choose, you will be buying a great set.

 

Unfortunately all manufacturers these days seem to have a problem with quality control. This doesn't apply only to trains, but to almost anything manufactured in volume. I wouldn't care to point any fingers, but I'm fairly sure that having the manufacturing outsourced so far away does little to help keep a tight control over such issues. However, having a good customer service operation can quickly solve any problems,

 

Also, as you have indicated, there is no reason at all why you can't mix-and-match. If you are running conventional control, any brand will work with any other. If you progress to a more advanced system in the future, then you can still mix brands. It will just cost a little more to get the best from each.

 

Whichever system you decide upon, I'm sure that the children concerned will have endless hours of joy, and may even become life-long members of this magnificent hobby.

 

Forget the partisan cries. Buy what you like, and enjoy the trains. 

 

Nicole.

As posted before Realtrax is fine if you fasten it down so why not put your first layout on a door??? A hollow core door is a great way to have your first layout. It gets the track up off the floor so the kids can't walk on it and you can make it with folding legs so it can be stored under one of the kids beds.
Both Lionel and MTH sets will be pretty durable but I think you'll be more satisfied as an adult with the MTH starter set with PS2. The kids will love it either way but the MTH will have remote control and sound. The others will not. I have no brand loyalty I'm just giving my opinion based on what I'd buy if it was me.
If you feel the track is a big issue then ask the shop owner if he will swap the realtrax out for the Lionel fastrax some will some won't but do ask.

David

Track can become an interesting subject on its own.  Folks do seem to prefer Fastrack, but MTH switches are less expensive than the Fast track ones. 

 

With a Lionel set you will normally get more rolling stock, but a less capable engine.  MTH gives you a more capable engine, but less cars in the set.  Lionel also has more set variety then MTH.

 

The remote is a big issue.  Transformer control and a bell/whsitle button can become boring after a while.  Having control over volume/smoke and being able to operate the coupler remotely and the doing the passenger or freight yard effects has a lot more play value.   G

Lionel  is ok  i like MTH the best

I agree, the statement came from THEE man, I did not make it up. All the train company's make nice sets. they should look at  as many as they can, then make a choice on what they like.

Given the very young age I'd suggest something like an RMT Beep plus assorted smaller cars. They would be the easiest to put on the track and their slow speed makes derailment less likely. Keep it simple and little supervision will be needed.

 

Pete

FlaglerSystem,

 

My first O gauge train was a Lionel NY Flyer set that we bought in November 1998.  I liked the idea of a ready to run starter set because it contained everything you would need to run your trains.

 

The starter sets of today offer a lot more choices and each manufacturer has their strengths and weaknesses. When I bought my Lionel set I never used any of the tublular track because I liked the MTH Realtrax better.

 

The track you use will be a personal choice and on a small 4x8 layout can easily be switched out if you want to make a change. Lionel's Fastrack has become a fan favorite although I still like my MTH Realtrax and am not interested in tearing up my layout to replace it with another track system.

 

Over the years I have purchased starter sets from both Lionel and MTH in addition to many individual engines and rolling stock. There is nothing stopping you from buying a Thomas engine separately to run on the layout in addition to the trains that come with the started set. MTH transformers are a better value and more reliable than the ones that come from Lionel.

 

As has been pointed out earlier, the MTH starter sets offer PS2 Command Control which is very interactive especially for the kids. This is a set that they can grow with as they are more realistic. The Lionel sets will be a little less expensive but you risk the kids getting bored. You do have the option of running any manufacturers trains on your layout.

 

 

When I worked in a hobby shop during the holiday season I would ask prospective customers looking for a starter set what their plans were for the trains. If the trains were to be run around a Christmas Tree and put away after the holiday season and realistic train operations were not too important than I would recommend a less expensive starter set. If the customer indicated that they were interested in a permanent type of layout than I would recommend a starter set with command control as it will help them grow with the hobby.

 

A lot depends on your budget and how you want to run your trains.

 

Steve Tapper 

I think Ed (eddiem) gave some good advice, though  it sounds like you have a different situation than him in that you have a local source for your products. It's kinda hard to ignore that factor when deciding. You're talking about kids playing with small things with lots of moving parts. Things are going to break. Having a local place that can fix minor problems can save a lot of grief.

 

I personally didn't have very good luck with MTH's track, but I was trying to use it under the Christmas tree on plush carpeting. Perhaps on a sheet of plywood it will stay connected better. Fastrack fares better under the tree than the Realtrax did, but I still have pieces come apart occasionally. (2 or three times a season maybe)

 

If you end up with a Lionel set (the NYC Flyer has sounds too IIRC) and want to use MTH's track, I am sure you could sell the Fastrack for enough to replace it with Realtrax. The shop might even swap it for you.

 

Of course a third option would be to buy one of each.   That way two kids could play at the same time. The track systems are almost made for that with Fastrack having a diameter of 36" and Realtrax  being 31".

 

Please let us know what you decide (pictures would be great!). I am sure the little ones will have a lot of fun with either brand.

 

Regarding WWIII, either the moderator has cleaned this topic up, or the natives are being a bit more civilized than I had expected .

 

J White