MTH Premier Caboose Red Warning Lights & Now non-sprung trucks - Is this right?

prototypically it should have a hard (or soft?) switch to swap the red light from one end to the other.  it wouldn't make sense to light both lamps but traveling in either direction, you'd need some way to identify which end is the EOT.

Thanks overlandflyer!  A switch to change which light is lit would be cool, like a true EOT as you mention, but I'm guessing there is not one based on the MTH light bulb replacement diagrams.  However, I'll double check to be sure.

Out of curiosity I did switch the direction of the caboose to see if it was dependent upon polarity, but alas it doesn't appear to be anything 'prototypically' cool like that...just a defective light...foiled again by QC

I'm tempted to take the shell off the caboose and check for a loose connection, but seeing as this is a brand new caboose and the LED's are 'hot glued' in place and not easy to get to (according to instructions) it seems I'll be sending this one back.

I wasn't thrilled about paying almost list price for a caboose, but it was just released this October and I really like this version's paint scheme (the grab rails are all done in white, especially those at either end...makes for some nice contrast and really shows off the detail).  Bummer!

Thanks again,

Robert

Just a quick update and another question.  The seller did not have another 2013 MTH BN caboose to offer an exchange, so I found a lightly used older version with both working LED's.

This bring up another question; Are non-sprung trucks common on MTH Premier Cabooses?

I was happy to find this version in LN condition, as it has a little more contrast on the roof details (yellow cupola grab rails, black antenna and stack), but I was surprised it came with the faux sprung trucks.

No biggie as I'm not a prototypical modeler, and this fits well with my anachronistic "merger-merger" scale consist.  Once I add my operating Santa Fe Reefer, it will be an even more colorful consist of BNSF history   This will likely remain my only 'scale' consist as all my other engines and rolling stock are semi-scale, and it gives my scale GP38 some appropriate sized stock.  Although I'm happy to mix and match running scale and non-scale all the time, it does look huge and cool rolling around my 4x8 layout.

Thanks,

Robert

With the exception of the UP caboose with the wood beam trucks, I've never seen an MTH caboose with sprung trucks. 

Premier steel side caboose with end marker lights on both ends.

I have several of the Premier steel side caboose.  The wiring from each end marker goes to a small connector on a circuit board. Both marker lamps are lighted when power is on the track.

Sprung trucks on MTH caboose.

Many MTH caboose models are supplied with Bettendorf sprung trucks. However most of the modern MTH caboose models feature Non-Sprung trucks. See photos.

I stand corrected.

Unfortunately, the large majority of MTH cabooses are equipped with unsprung Bettendorf T-section trucks. These are a pre-WWI design, making them highly anachronistic on any steel caboose. 

The UP, Pennsy, and Northeastern cabooses shown or mentioned in previous posts are the only ones I've seen that have sprung trucks of the correct period. Ironically, some  cheap Rail King woodside starter-set cabooses have roller bearing trucks (unsprung, if I remember correctly). They would actually be more correct with the T-section Bettendorfs.

I've bought a bunch of sprung MTH caboose trucks from 2-railers who have converted their cabooses, and I have at least one pair of cabooses that both would be improved with a truck swap. One of these days when I have time I am going to dig out all my MTH cabooses and equip as many of them as possible with correct or semi-correct trucks. 

Prototype N5-C caboose trucks with leaf springs. This is typical for steel caboose construction through the late 50's.

Thank you AGHRMatt, pro hobby and Southwest Hiawatha!

Interesting stuff...I just assumed all MTH Premier Cabooses would come with sprung trucks (I'm a novice).  The 2013 20-91398 Premier Steel Caboose Model I sent back did have sprung trucks (hard to see in this stock photo)...

But this older circa 2000, 20-91026 Premier BN model I picked up has what look to be faux sprung 'arch bar' trucks.  Where the springs were on the 2013 model there looks like a die cast impression of non-functioning springs...that's why I was calling them 'faux'...sorry, again kind of tough to see...

I had to do some researching to understand the "Bettendorf" tag Southwest Hiawatha mentioned, but wiki had this picture (which look like one of the models pro hobby posted)...

While the 2013 and 2000 model look more like this picture of 'archbar' trucks from wiki...

So there were Bettendorf trucks that were non-sprung in prototypical use prior to WWI.

Were there also non-sprung 'archbar' trucks (if that's a correct term), and/or do the archbar trucks being modeled have the springs in the right location?

(Many seem to have the springs under the outer edge of that floating center section like the Santa Fe caboose pro hobby posted above.)...just curious.

Thanks,

Robert

The diamond-shaped truck that is the prototype for the common MTH caboose truck is generally called a "T-section Bettendorf" truck because it was made by Bettendorf and the edge of the casting forms a T to add strength. It is from around the turn of the century through WWI. The design was one of the first cast-frame trucks. It was not strong enough for the job and was soon replaced by an early version of the "Bettendorf" truck commonly seen on models. The prototype was sprung; the MTH model is not. If you look carefully you can see the outline of springs cast into the sideframes of the model. This is NOT an arch bar truck. Arch bar trucks were built-up from steel bars; the T-section was a one-piece cast sideframe. Here's a link to a PDF with a bunch of info and photos on trucks, including a photo of a prototype T-section Bettendorf. 

Truck Info

Interesting discussion here on the history of trucks. Thanks for all of the info. I learned something new today!

when i was researching my NKP caboose, i found these fairly accurate Barber-Bettendorf trucks...

also known as "swing-motion" trucks, they provided a bit more comfortable ride for the conductor.  these are the earlier solid bearing type you'll find listed in the "Truck Info" link (fig 12) SW Hiawatha posted above.

Interesting stuff...I just assumed all MTH Premier Cabooses would come with sprung trucks (I'm a novice). 

MTG

Freight car trucks typically have coil springs.  Most cabooses were equipped with trucks based on freight car types but instead of coil springs they often used transverse elliptical springs to provide the crew with a smoother ride.  Most O scale freight car trucks have individual coil springs and many will compress under load.  O scale caboose trucks that depict elliptical springs typically do not have functioning leaf springs which, due to cost and complexity, would likely only be found on high end brass models.

Arch bar trucks were made up until the turn of the last century.  They were bolted together from pressed steel parts and steel bar stock.  Later trucks were made from cast side frames.  Arch bar trucks were banned from interchange prior to WW II.

T section Bettendorf trucks were allowed on freight cars in interchange service into the 1950s.  Since cabooses were typically not interchanged T section Bettendorf trucks with coil springs could be used even later.  I do not know if any T section Bettendorfs were used on BN cabooses.  It is possible since many wood and early steel cabooses made it to the BN om the 1970 merger of the GN, NP, CB&Q and SP&S.  The trucks used on your caboose are either correct or the closest to correct available from the MTH truck tooling.

Look here for more photos of BN cabooses in the 70s and 80s.

http://viewlinerltd.blogspot.c...9/10/bn-caboose.html

http://www.srha.net/documents/...oseTruckPamphlet.pdf

found this pamphlet on the more modern roller bearing version of the Barber-Bettendorf truck.

Look at the trucks on this caboose.

This is what the model should have.

It is extremely improbably that any steel caboose built for mainline service would have been equipped with Bettendorf T-section trucks.

I agree that it is unlikely.  But that dose not mean the it isn't possible.  Weirder things have happened.

Production of those trucks stopped around 1920, long before steel cabooses were in common use. When new cabooses were built, they normally would have had new trucks of the most recent design. Why would somebody put used, obsolete trucks on a brand new caboose?

Perhaps you can explain why the UP specified trucks with a design right out of the 1880s with wooden beams for their first steel cabooses or why they retrofitted wooden trucks on some cabooses that had been equipped with all steel trucks.  Eventually more modern thinking prevailed at the UP and the wood trucks were again replaced with all steel ones.  But they did have diesel and gas turbine locomotives pulling trains with wooden trucked cabooses on the other end.  Now how improbable is that? 

The cabooses on the BN closest to the MTH model came from the CB&Q.  The Q would recycle just about anything when it came to cabooses.  While the T-section Bettendorfs may not be correct for this particular caboose they are not impossible.  They are likely they are the closest thing available from MTH's parts bin, just like the caboose itself.

I'd love to know why the UP put wood-beam trucks on steel cabooses. Why don't you tell us? To speculate a bit, here are a couple of possible explanations:

1. It may be that the UP just had a large number of them in inventory. These were basically scaled down passenger trucks and would have been smooth-riding for the time. Putting them on new cabooses would have saved the money for new trucks until the wood started to deteriorate - several years down the line.

2. Perhaps the UP didn't believe that the steel caboose trucks available at the time rode as well as the old style.

3. If this occurred during WWII, it could well be that the UP just couldn't get enough cast steel trucks. There were shortages of everything made of metal.

Here's an interesting picture I found of an NYC wooden caboose with what appear to be leaf-spring T-section Bettendorf trucks. I have a lot of train photo books and I see very, very few photos of cabooses with this type of trucks. I've actually seen more pictures of wooden cabooses with arch bar trucks being used on branch lines, even into the 70's, than I have of the T-section.  

And as for MTH, if the T-section Bettendorf trucks are the best they've got in their parts box for steel cabooses running on main lines in the 1970's and 80's, they need a bigger box with more parts in it. Reminds me of some lines about "mobile homes" from an old Jimmy Buffett song:

They're ugly and square

They don't belong here

They looked a lot better as beer cans!

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