MTH Proto3 Upgrade

I switched out a couple of boards and had to bend the heat sink bracket a bit to get it to fit.  The PS2 upgrade kit has a better photo of the rectifier and the heat sink.  Different chassis configurations can make mounting the heat sink to the chassis a little more difficult.  Also, you need to apply the thermal conductive grease to the rectifier before you attach the heat sink!

The PS/3 diesel upgrade doesn't use the same configuration HS as the PS/2 upgrade.  The boards are a different form factor.  The PS/3 board has a vertical HS.

Thanks for replies but still not sure how to configure and use screws to attach sink and bracket. "Attach" is all I read.

Bracket under board? Sink screwed onto bracket through tab?

I'm guessing at some point you'll break down and post a picture of exactly what you have, right?

Here we go.

The heatsink slips on from the side and the screw hole is down at the same level as the bottom of the carrier.  I normally tap a hole for a 3.0mm screw and use one of the short 3mm screws that I always seem to have spares of, one is in that package.  Of course, use some heatsink compound on the sides of the bridge, slightly spread the heatsink, and then use the supplied longer screw to securely clamp the heatsink, making sure of alignment of the screw with the base of the plastic carrier.

I normally pitch the black piece, I've yet to use it.

Thanks for your input. I'll post my progress.

Not trying to be mean, but it your not sure how to put on the heat sink, you will have far more difficult issues to resolve in the upgrade that can damage the board.  Might be best to let a tech do the upgrade.  There are pictures off a GG-1 in the PS-3 instructions with the heat sink on the board.  At least in my copy of the instructions.  Read them thoroughly and examine it all before you proceed.  G

Well I gave it my best shot. Dealer would have charged $300 to install. Not worth the cost as I could buy used Proto2 engine for less. I followed directions to the T  in a safe environment. Connected no lights, had no smoke unit to connect. Waited on coupler connections. Applied current as specified in conventional mode and nothing. Maybe I shorted it. Who knows. I was frustrated by ill fitting supplies. The plastic bracket did not securely hold the circuit board. Mounting screws had to be reversed to fit, leaving ugly nuts on outside bottom of chassis, and booklet illustrations were dark and undetailed. Perhaps the kit was too old. I must have ordered it 3 or 4 years ago. Waste of money. I've learned my lesson.

Both the PS3 diesel and PS3 steam kits are very straight forward. I've installed several both for myself and local friends. The kits require some ability to follow wiring diagrams and mount components, so if you're not comfortable with that I would have gotten someone else to install the kit. $300 from the LHS is excessive. It's maybe 5-6 hours of total install time tops. The PS3 kits are actually very well designed.

I wish I could get $300 to install the kit, I'd do that all day and make tons of money.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

I wish I could get $300 to install the kit, I'd do that all day and make tons of money.

Maybe you should charge more???

Probably a simple mistake.  Issue is to find it.

@RJR posted:

Probably a simple mistake.  Issue is to find it.

Problem is, in this circumstance, even simple mistakes lead to expensive mistakes.......and once you let the magic smoke out, it’s not going back in....

Pat

Hmmmm   Mess up the job, blame the kit.

My mistake(s). I take ownership. But I also believe that, for the money, a company should also take responsibility and manufacture a product that installs the way their instructions direct. I have installed ERR upgrades on several engines and never had a problem and their instructions were easy to follow.

Miguelito, I have done over a dozen upgrades on my locos.  I never had any problems understanding and following the instructions.  Any issues I had, and there were only a few, were because of some sloppiness on my part.  Before I would dump the board, I would have a competent tech place it on his/her MTH tester and see if it's the board or the Miguelito

I don't agree with some of these comments.  It sounds like the instructions aren't especially complete or descriptive.  It also sounds like this is a generic kit and not specific to this loco, so it's not a screw-for-screw replacement of what's already there.  Some custom placement is required which takes experience, or lacking that, imagination.  After reading GRJ's third post above about tapping a hole, etc., I'm not sure that I would have been successful either.  Some of us don't work with circuit boards, heat sinks, etc., on a routine basis so unless it's spelled out in detail, I wouldn't have known what to do.

All that being said, I wouldn't buy a PS1 anything unless it were almost free, because I'm well aware of this hassle!

@Miguelito what exactly happened when you applied current? Just no movement? 

Absolutely nothing. Perhaps I shorted out the board unwittingly. I dis connected speaker, never connected couplers or lights. Expected some movement.

Thanks for commiserating.

These instructions are pretty clear to me: https://mthtrains.com/sites/de...ction/50as18328i.pdf

Mount the board, follow the wiring diagram, route/trim wires and that's it. An F3, being a full width unit, is even easier. It doesn't start to get difficult till you install the kit in something like a GP7 or NW2 with a narrow hood. Yes there are lots of wires but that's because the PS3 board has more lighting control than an ERR Cruise Commander, plus the PS3 kits has an actual premade harness. That's something the Cruise Commander does not.

I have to say, the PS/3 diesel kit is more of a PITA than any of the PS/2 kits or the PS/3 steam kit.  All the tiny wires and zillions of options do increase the difficulty.

My fix is to decide what features I need for the specific upgrade and remove all the wires that are not needed for that upgrade to minimize the tangle of wires.  Some time spent up front prepping the kit will yield big benefits as you proceed with the installation.

I'll also say that the PS/3 boards are way less forgiving of mistakes along the way. 

@Miguelito posted:

Absolutely nothing. Perhaps I shorted out the board unwittingly. I dis connected speaker, never connected couplers or lights. Expected some movement

I mean it's just been my experience that you'll usually get some noticeable failure (smoke or heat) unless you shorted the board via static electricity. I've had that happen with electronics replacements on CNC machines. It sucks because you can't see it happen. You usually solve it by being EXTREMELY careful with a second replacement and then it works. 

Don't beat yourself up too much. Everyone starts learning somewhere. 

All protosound kits are much more complicated than ERR installs.  

I’m not trying to insult you but trying to blame the manufacturer because you are not experienced with installing one of these kits is just crazy.  

There is a reason techs charge $100 plus to install these boards.  

I hope you are able to figure out what is wrong and wish you the best of luck.  

You do know in conventional mode, you need to wait about 20 seconds before anything will happen while the capacitors charge? Also, if you are expecting the double click on powerup like a PS2 engine, it won't be there, they are silent. another also, all the incandescent bulbs will need to be changed to LED's. The PS3 board does not have the power to light these. Headlights, cab lights in an F unit. ( correct polarity, please)That's when the work starts.

@Chuck Sartor posted:

You do know in conventional mode, you need to wait about 20 seconds before anything will happen while the capacitors charge?

One of my PS2 steamers refuses to run in conventional mode (tried three transformers, multiple factory resets). It runs perfect with a DCS remote. Any chance he's experiencing something similar?

If the board is dead, is there a way to get the board only replaced without buying the whole kit? Or can the board be repaired by someone?

GGG repairs boards.  He is highly recommended.

It really depends on how "dead" is dead.  Some failures of the PS/3 boards can be repaired, but in general they're not as repairable as the 3V PS/2 boards.

anybody kown what the ic number is Q or  U??? for the FET reverse light is on a ps 3 steam kit  ps3/2 board! where the location and then part number ?

Alan

May I ask the cost of a board evaluation and/or repair? And for a replacement?

Alan, didn't you get the ASC Replaceable Parts on PS3 Boards.PDF that details all the parts you can replace on the boards?

no john i ownly have the common parts list that shows some ps3 proto sound 3 ho n proto sound 3.0 O/G

Alan

One of the problems is that if you use the screws and nuts to hold the plastic bracket to the frame the screw can protrude up to much and touch bottom of board.  When doing a PS-32 or 3 upgrade I only use the outside hold areas.  But I also drill and tap for the 3mm screws,  I hardly ever use the screw and nut.

If you want you can send me the board and I can test, possibly repair.  

For the person with no conventional motion, you need to do the conventional reset.  1W and 5B and/or try a DCS factory reset.  Engine can be locked in conventional neutral.  G

If I send the board, do I have to remove heat sink?

@GGG posted:

 

For the person with no conventional motion, you need to do the conventional reset.  1W and 5B and/or try a DCS factory reset.  Engine can be locked in conventional neutral.  G

Done and done. Transformer reset resulted in two toots. I think DCS did too. That was on someone else's layout though. I thought with 100% certainty that my CW80 was an incompatible transformer. So I got my hands on a Z4000 but it doesn't work with that either. At that point, I figured it didn't matter even though I guess I could look it up. I planned on getting DCS anyway so no worries. 

Who could examine the board?

Above, GGG said he could.  I'd leave the heat sink on.