MTH's BR 44 2-10-0: Some details

When MTH first started producing the Euro stuff, I said to myself if MTH ever produces a BR 44 2-10-0 I'm going to get one.  Then MTH did announce one and reality set in.  The engine looks very good, but the price!  My threshold of pain for a steam engine is about $1000.00, so, sadly I won't be getting this engine.

Oh, and knowing MTH's track record for on time delivery, don't expect to see it in March.

Dear SZ,

    Thank you for the update,ordered mine when first announced. As I am not familiar with the DB freight operations, if you could give some insight on which freight cars go with this engine and manufacturers.BTW, what did they consider a "caboose".

I can't wait to see this and its train on the Cherry Valley club in New Jersey!! 

 

Once again, thanks in advance for the advise.  John

http://www.spurnull-magazin.de...-44-von-m-t-h-busch/

here is a link with pictures

Cor

I know exactly how you feel.  I really want one, but my limit is about the same.  Ah well, maybe we'll find some deals on these in about 10 years or so.

John,

Freight cars (Güterwagen)  to go with the DB BR44 are made by Brawa (http://www.brawa.de/) and Lenz (http://www.lenz-elektronik.de/); depending on what version you ordered you should choose cars from period (epoche) 3 or 4 (III or IV). The German freight cars made by MTH do not really fit with the BR44.  There were no cabooses in Germany but some freight trains had a conductors car which was placed directly behind the engine. Lenz makes one of these (http://www.lenz-elektronik.de/...nderbauarten.php#Pwg). Brawa has traders in the USA (http://www.brawa.de/nc/fachhae...list_pi1%5Bmode%5D=1), for Lenz I do not know.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Regards

Fred

+1 to what Fred said, with two additional vendors:

 

- MBW:  Make [ well, import ], inter alia, the "hopper" and "covered hopper" cars often seen in unit trains, with which 44's, especially the oil fired version, were most well know in the 70's.

 

- Kiss:  Although also a brass importer they have done some mass produced cars, especially the 6 axle heavy duty flatcars.  These could be used individually with, for example, steel billet loads, or as a unit train with, say, M48 tanks.....

 

But a through freight would give the greater variety -- and you could also use some of the older cars manufactured by 0-Scale-Models, Pola/Raimo, or Rivarossi.

I would like to especially recommend one or more of the Brawa container cars -- some of the finest plastic models yet made in 0 scale, in my opinion.  Just go easy on the beer, refrigerator, and stock cars -- in a typical BR 44 freight those would most likely be empty.

 

Best regards, SZ

@ Steinzeit:  when I lived in Wuerzburg in the late 60's I remember 2-10-0's pulling log trains out of the Main River valley, sometimes double headed.  Of course, being a teenager at the time, I never took any photos.  So, would those have been BR 44's, or BR 50's?  Also, would they have used regular flat cars or a specialized car for timber loads?  

John,

  1. If I had to guess -- and I do ! -- I would say those would have been 50's, if only because they outnumbered the 44's by five to one, or something like that.  On 1/1/65 there were both 44's and 50's based at Würzburg, but whether the 44's stayed there into the late 60's I couldn't say for sure, but I would guess they would have been transferred out.

   Of course, it could also have been one of each !

 

  2.  To the best of my knowledge there would have been no special cars for log transport;  depending on the log length, standard 4 wheel or 8 wheel flats with removable or swiveling [ eg, down, to be below deck height ] stakes would have been used.  Look at a Lenz Rm model photo and see if that looks familiar.  

   Smaller sizes, like pulpwood, were carrried in high side 4 wheel "gons";  DB had quite explicit instructions on how to stack the load.

 

Hope that helps.

Best, SZ

I think that MTH has really step up their game on this engine...well they kind of needed...specially again the Lenz BR 50, who is setting even higher standard at the same price point.

Really like the inclusion of the display board.

 

A few close-up pics which difference the detailling betweeen the SNCF 150 and DB ep 4

 

 

 DB front

 

SNCF front

 

 

Side rods DB...only complain there, the LED seem slightly oversized

 

SNCF one

 

 

Tender DB...with the contact strip for static operation and the extra tender light, not present on the SNCF version.

 

SNCF..only 1  cab window

 

Note the SNCF is the same as the grey DRG ep IIC version and the DB ep 4 is the same as the ep III...except for the number.

 

And for Steinzeit, yes the E94 will also have the upgraded DC/DCC board...they also will be shipped on the display board...at least for the 2 rails version and European market.

 

2 close up shot of the front nose for details difference between the DB and OBB version....he also look much better than the previous "pre-production" pics.

For the Swiss version, need to wait for next month "Swiss York".

 

 DB version..

 

OBB version

 

 

Sincerely,

PW

Swiss version, I think I missed that in the announcements? Or is it a custom version by Hermann? I'm still planning to go to Olten this year, just not on buying much with the current euro/sfr exchange rate. I'll try to sell some stuff instead  

 

 

Yes, a Swiss version will be offered by Hermann. Everyone who is coming to Olten in march, please let me know, I can give you a tour at Hermann as well.

Kind regards, Stefan

Thanks, Stefan;  I hope we will see information about it on the Hermann website soon.

 

Has there been any comment from your customers about the DB green version being in the preserved museum appearance rather than real Epoch III ?   I can understand MTH doing something like that, but I would have thought Busch would view it differently.....

 

With best regards, SZ

Steinzeit, we will post this on our homepage, of corse. As for the E94 as well as the BR44, MTH is advised by a former Märklin employee. It is a very smart move to offer such engine in a version of a preserved engine, this way you reach more customers (I would do the same). Busch doesn't have too much influence in details of MTH models and leaves technical details up to the ones who really know it. We will for sure have some of the BR44's and E94's at the show in Olten. Just step by our booth and ask for me:-)

Best regards, Stefan

Stefan, I agree that a preserved locomotive allows you to reach more customers -- IF the preserved loco looks the same as the "in service"ones did.  If it doesn't, and MTH's green E94 doesn't, you lose a portion of the market that models the original look, in this case Epoch III.  [ I of course say that a portion will be lost because the remaining market will be:

  -- those that don't know the difference

  -- those that know the differences but will try to ignore them

  -- those that know the differences and will correct, or try to correct, them.]

 

Since surveys show, and other manufacturers' catalogues suggest, Epoch III is the largest market for DB models, with IV right behind, one would THINK you'd want the primary focus of the product to be there -- instead MTH with the E94 almost ignores it, the exception being the one-of-a-kind blue E94  which at least IS valid* in both "then and now" states.

 

In the same vein MTH could have done so much better with the BR 44 choices;  how many [ in Germany ] model the wartime grey area -- and how many Francophones will go for a locomotive of limited application and not in their beloved 1/43.5 scale.

Maybe MTH is planning follow on versions, but instead of those two I would have done an Epoch II DRB version [ Wagner elephant ears ] and the oil fired version; and because if I were a manufacturer -- and I'm not, you and Mike are -- I would want to sell models that people not only want to buy one of, they want to buy more than one of, so I'd offer them in at least two running numbers each.

 

I had thought the Märklin person was providing only technical expertise on how to produce a model, not what to produce.  If that's the case, I almost feel sorry for Busch, because MTH has such mouthwatering potential;  the BR 44 choices really do seem like something out of a Märklin catalogue from the early '60's, which is most assuredly not the same customer base as Spur 0 in 2015.

 

But enough of my whining;  what is being produced look like good models, and I'll certainly support them with my purchases where justified.   It just looks like I'll be spending more with Herr Lenz  and MBW than I thought....

 

With best regards as usual,

 

SZ

 

*Edited to add:  Well, "valid" after what looks like 5 minutes or so with a Dremel and paint brush....

Steinzeit, I see your point about era III modelers, but they get at least one version too. Here in Europe, interest is slowly but surely going toward era 4. In Switzerland modelers have always been into the "modern" era (or better current era) and we get the most interest for the orange austrian E94 (aka ÖBB Reihe 1020) which is also my personal favorite. So, you see, my customers are more happy about the modern or current versions about that model. Its also nice to see all the changes MTH has done to the austrian version.
For the BR44, I think MTH made the most out of it with the least changes. The reason that there is a french version is very simple; here in Europe is a big market for french steamer (MTH is making with the 2-8-2 Mikado the third french steamer already) so this is also a smart move to offer a french version. The DRG version is "american marketing"; its just a different color then all the others plus as far as I know, there are many war time fans in America.
As I also run a business, I know its very difficult to make everyone happy with an offering, but I think with these 4 versions of each model, MTH reaches as many customers as possible. Our Swiss version of the E94 will just be a supplement for the swiss domestic market.

Best regards, Stefan

Stefan,

  I have to admit that for my personal selection the E94 choices were good;  I preordered the orange one right away myself, and later also ordered the ÖBB green one [ although I admit a pre-rebuild ÖBB three window one would have been better .... ], and never had any thought about getting a DB one.  I think just the selection available could have been better for the Epoch III érs -- but maybe MTH / Busch market research found out otherwise.

  They may also have found out that the grey and SNCF BR 44's will sell well;  I just think there is a great deal of difference between a US modeller saying they'd like something, and then not buying it, vs a German modeller who "needs" the model, and buys two.

   I think all the models will sell, especially since preorders tells them where the strengths are -- I just think MTH/Busch could do even better.  Perhaps there will be second production runs, the opportunites are certainly there !

 

Best, SZ

 

What I can tell, we preordered a certain number of both the E94 and the BR44 but all we get are sold. I guess I had a good feeling with the preorders. I personally like all E94's except for the german era III version. The blue BR 194 is a pretty cool modern time loco. The green austrian is a decent version that can be used from early era III up to today. The orange austrian is a very common engine that was seen right at the border to Switzerland over three decades. MTH's model is the one I believe is preserved in Linz. Even the classic green german E94 can be used for today's tasks.
I'm not at all concerned about the era III collectors in germany. To say it in a polite way, a typical era III collector in Germany doesn't necassarely choose a MTH engine as a first choice. Lenz, Brawa or even MBW fits their bill much better then any MTH model. Its not that MTH's quality is not enough, but its more an adiction to a certain brand. In my personal opinion, MTH made the most interesting models of them all that fit our customer's needs, fallowed by Lenz and then Brawa. I do not even import MBW because of their price policy. With MTH in the lead, and Lenz/ Brawa not far behind, I know what I get and they cover most of our customer's needs as well.
In my opinion, I don't think MTH ever will rerun any of the E94's nor BR44. The only ones I could imagine would be the german era III BR 194, I don't even have an idea what else could be done with the BR44 except for another cab number....

A poster above mentioned a DDR BR44.  Did Poland operate some too?

Beautiful pieces.

My euro habit is Spür 1 and Z

This is my latest addition - Kiss Siemens/KM E10 fine scale 1:32



A few of us started a small group for our Euro habit ;-)

Erik, my compliments on your excellent taste in prototypes.

   Two questions:

-  Why Ga 1 and not in "Spur 0" ?

-  Are you going to get a set of '62 Rheingold cars to run with it ?

 

I note it seems to be missing the "cast" emblem on the front;  did it just become detached in shipping, I imagine / hope ?

 

Best regards, SZ

 PS: you may be thinking different variations as many exist.

 

Well, no.  Notice the photo immediately above, which I believe you sourced from the Kiss website or their prospectus on the E10's;  that's the variation you have, and you'll note only it has the DB emblem on the nose, the same metal one as used on the flanks.  Your model, which is of one of the first Rheingold group E10.1239 through .1244, should have that emblem; no other pre-crease E10's had them, as I don't believe their Rheinpfeil half-sisters did.  I realize the model shown on the Ebay ad did not have it, but it should.  I would think Kiss would readily furnish a replacement.

    For the prototypes, see any photo of these locomotives on the Rheingold in 1962-63 before their "crease" repacements arrived.  And these aren't just locomotives, of course:  they're icons.....

 

Best, SZ

I will need to look into this. I am sure I can get badges not a big deal. Well, NO the Koreans or Chinese surely can't make mistakes; or can they!? ;-)

Ha!

However rightfully so it should be correct at a mere $3K USD

Remarkable machines indeed. European railroading is as exciting today as ever. And the history is even more exciting.

   Erik, my experience has been that occasionally some emblems / number plates etc adhesived to a gloss surface simply fall off over time, and since this model was, I think, produced about 9 - 10 years ago, I had assumed that happened, and I originally pointed it out with the thought that you should give the shipping / packing materiels a close inspection in case it was in there.  That's why I brought the subject up.

  

   It's also quite possible [ or perhaps "not impossible" ] the emblem was applied in Germany.  European importers have sometimes imported models less badges / number plates / other jewelry and applied them themselves.  This makes it less easy, though not impossible,  for the Korean builder to build an additional number of models and sell them themselves for their own account, or some similar chicanery;  if you ever see a European loco for sale that's completely missing such items, that's probably its "heritage".

 

Best regards, SZ

 Rumour today is that the BR44 has arrived, or at least for some dealers   . Of course nobody at the train show today brought one, so we had to amuse ourselves with other locomotives. 

 

I did buy a few ERZ III cars from MBW, and so it begins.....

My latest 1 scale addition

My O-scale BR01 is a bit smaller   .

 

 Still two weeks to go till Buseck/Olten before we can report on the BR44.... I did find a new video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Py8sH61SGCM which also features the Lenz BR50

I just LOVE 1 scale. 1:32 fine scale. In blue the BR01 is such a pretty dampflok.

This is a video not of my model but a BR50 with the same features in action ! I need to shoot a video. It's INCREDIBLE nothing better on Earth than ESU Loksound and 7 smoke units!

http://youtu.be/W556ur3R3B4

Here is a video of the blue BR01 in my garden:

Regards

Fred

Both the E94 and the BR44 were for sale this weekend, In Buseck only the E94 and in Olten also the BR44. The Br44 overall looks very nice but has a few points that I find distracting at that price (seethrough under boiler and side leds). We also got to see the upcoming locomotives from Lenz, BR24 is coming in the fall and then the BR50.

       
       


Fabulous Fred!!

Love your cars!

I remember reading something about the Polish railways operating several, maybe a few dozen.

Dear List,

     Picked up my MTH 2 Rail 44 339 yesterday and now the hunt for a accurate era 3 freight train. I see per Steinzeit advise to check out Lenz,Kiss,and Brawa stock and I have a few questions on the makeup of this 10/12 car train. Please remember, I know nothing of German trains other than before I spend the $1k plus on these cars, I would like to have a faithful representation of a typical mixed freight of era 3. 

1.- can the ballast,cement container , hopper cars be a part of the mixed train or were they run as unit trains?

2. where is the placement of the brakeman freight cars in the consist?how many for a 10/12 car train?

3.- are all makes of German O scale compatible with one another?

4.- if you could give me and others in this list a breakdown of freight cars that would be found in a typical German mixed freight train.

I know some of these questions may be absurd to some of you, but once again, I do not want to spend $1k plus on a incorrect representation of German railroading.

 

Thanks in advance for your advise. John P.Dunn Sr.

 

To answer some of your questions, John:

 

2. [ The easiest one ].  There would normally be only one, and it would be right behind the locomotive.  As in North American cabooses, there could be more than one, if deadheading.

 

1.  The large Fal type hopper cars were usually run in unit trains, as were to a lesser extent the Talbot ballast cars.  A single cement car would be OK,  the smaller hoppers [ Otmm type ] could certainly be singly.

 

3.  The Lenz, Brawa, and MBW cars all have the same Lenz style coupling;  I don't think Kiss cars come that way, but I could be wrong, don't have any.

    I would order a pair of "modell couplings" from either Lenz or Brawa so you can substitute one of them at the rear of the last car on the train.  They are listed under Accessories or similar, no need to go to a parts listing per se.

 

4.  Most freights of that era could be pretty dull, just as North American freights in the 50's, but by the beginning of the 60's there was more variety.  Hence, I would go heavy on brown "gondola" and "box" car types, but would also have a tank car or two [ maybe one @ Lenz and Brawa ]; the Brawa gon with the roof;  one or two Lenz R type stake wagons [ maybe with different loads ],  two different Brawa container cars;  one [ empty ] livestock car and a plain Jane reefer [ also 'empty'].  The new Brawa SNCF box car would be good, too, if it is available.

 

How's that for openers ?

 

Best regards, SZ