MTH Z-750 transformer problems

what engines are u trying too run ps 1 or proto 1 ps 2 3 or 5 volt or ps 3 engines makes a difference!give us item numbers like 30-1166-1. are u trying to run conventional or are u trying to use  tiu and remote?

for example!

The early Z-750’s were incompatible with ProtoSound 1 Premier locomotives at the time. I experienced similar problems when attempting to test a Premier F40PH PS1 engine using a Z-750 from the RailKing Chessie construction set. I don’t know if PS2 or PS3 engines have issues with the Z-750. The problem is with the controller, not the brick, as it is the controller that chops the sine wave. A newer controller with the old brick might work....

I just got done trying to run my engines, which are ProtoSound 2s, and this time I used my Lionel C80 transformer, and got things just about the same. When I run these engines on my layout with my Z4000, no problems.

I am running as conventional.

Alan Mancus posted:

what engines are u trying too run ps 1 or proto 1 ps 2 3 or 5 volt or ps 3 engines makes a difference!give us item numbers like 30-1166-1. are u trying to run conventional or are u trying to use  tiu and remote?

for example!

As a for instance I am trying to run MTH #20-20092-1 PS-2

The Z-750 and the CW-80 are both transformers that have problems with proto-1 and proto-2. They are not on the list of compatible transformers that MTH provided in the instruction manuals for these engines.

Jim

Yes and no. According to my instruction manual for the Premier ES44AC MTH CLAIMS tht a Z-750 is compatible, however the Lionel CW-80 is not listed. So I am still out in left field. Thanks for your reply!!

that's why I asked what engines you were running as I suspected the z-750 would not run proto1 n ps 2 engines

Jeff B. Haertlein posted:

Yes and no. According to my instruction manual for the Premier ES44AC MTH CLAIMS tht a Z-750 is compatible, however the Lionel CW-80 is not listed. So I am still out in left field. Thanks for your reply!!

The Z-750 is hit or miss as far as what proto engines give it problems. I know of a few instruction sheets where it is not listed as compatible. You just have to try it out. Erratic horn blowing on its own is the first indication that all is not well between engine electronics and transformer. I've seen a few engines that even had problems occasionally with Z-1000s and Z-4000s. There are a lot of variables in the various proto electronics in different engines.

Jim

Alan Mancus posted:

that's why I asked what engines you were running as I suspected the z-750 would not run proto1 n ps 2 engines

So...what transformer is going to work?

Jim Policastro posted:

Jeff B. Haertlein posted:

Yes and no. According to my instruction manual for the Premier ES44AC MTH CLAIMS tht a Z-750 is compatible, however the Lionel CW-80 is not listed. So I am still out in left field. Thanks for your reply!!

The Z-750 is hit or miss as far as what proto engines give it problems. I know of a few instruction sheets where it is not listed as compatible. You just have to try it out. Erratic horn blowing on its own is the first indication that all is not well between engine electronics and transformer. I've seen a few engines that even had problems occasionally with Z-1000s and Z-4000s. There are a lot of variables in the various proto electronics in different engines.

Jim

That's too bad that this happens. Once again, I guess Companies don't want stuff compatible, period!

Jeff B. Haertlein posted:

Alan Mancus posted:

that's why I asked what engines you were running as I suspected the z-750 would not run proto1 n ps 2 engines

So...what transformer is going to work?

Any Lionel postwar transformer will always work. The addition of a fast acting fuse in the output circuit is recommended. There have been numerous threads in the past here detailing how to add one.

The Z-1000 and Z-4000 are also pretty safe bets. 

Jim

Jim Policastro posted:

Jeff B. Haertlein posted:

Alan Mancus posted:

that's why I asked what engines you were running as I suspected the z-750 would not run proto1 n ps 2 engines

So...what transformer is going to work?

Any Lionel postwar transformer will always work. The addition of a fast acting fuse in the output circuit is recommended. There have been numerous threads in the past here detailing how to add one.

The Z-1000 and Z-4000 are also pretty safe bets. 

Jim

Oh really? That would be great. I can look into one of those. So what is the reason that an older transformer will work, and yet these newer ones are in question?  Thanks so much, I'll look into what I can use.

jeff there is  lit on mth web sight that lists what transformer will work with what engines. the z-750 sometimes will work there were different versions of z 750 that will n won't work. best in my opinion FWIW is z4000 transformer. yes older Lionel will work but there circuit breaker is 10 amps  and the breaker resets itself n is slow to trip and because it is  slow to trip you'll burn up electronic in  trains unless you use adequate fast acting fuse protection . In my opinion I would stay away from old ZW's, boards are expensive fuses are cheap  .  to answer your question ! JEFF

Jeff B. Haertlein posted:

Jim Policastro posted:

Jeff B. Haertlein posted:

Alan Mancus posted:

that's why I asked what engines you were running as I suspected the z-750 would not run proto1 n ps 2 engines

So...what transformer is going to work?

Any Lionel postwar transformer will always work. The addition of a fast acting fuse in the output circuit is recommended. There have been numerous threads in the past here detailing how to add one.

The Z-1000 and Z-4000 are also pretty safe bets. 

Jim

Oh really? That would be great. I can look into one of those. So what is the reason that an older transformer will work, and yet these newer ones are in question?  Thanks so much, I'll look into what I can use.

I just brought out my KW for testing purposes, and I was elated to find out that the GEVO works fine with the old KW. Thanks for pointing that out. Now we can fine tune things and get this idea to fruition.

Alan Mancus posted:

jeff there is  lit on mth web sight that lists what transformer will work with what engines. the z-750 sometimes will work there were different versions of z 750 that will n won't work. best in my opinion FWIW is z4000 transformer. yes older Lionel will work but there circuit breaker is 10 amps  and the breaker resets itself n is slow to trip and because it is  slow to trip you'll burn up electronic in  trains unless you use adequate fast acting fuse protection . In my opinion I would stay away from old ZW's, boards are expensive fuses are cheap  .  to answer your question ! JEFF

Your suggestions are well taken. And if we go with a older Lionel transformer, we will put a fast tripping fuse inline FIRST!

For future reference, the Z-4000 is the only MTH transformer with a pure sine wave output. According to forum members, the Z-1000 also outputs a chopped wave voltage.

Atlas Pure Power and all postwar transformers are pure wave, but the thermal breakers on the postwar transformers trip too slowly to avoid serious damage to the electronics. (Though even modern transformers have breakers that really are designed to protect the transformer, not the sensitive electronic equipment in the locomotives.)

Best bet. Stick with the Z-4000 for PS1 and PS2 locomotives.

Jim R. posted:

For future reference, the Z-4000 is the only MTH transformer with a pure sine wave output. According to forum members, the Z-1000 also outputs a chopped wave voltage.

Atlas Pure Power and all postwar transformers are pure wave, but the thermal breakers on the postwar transformers trip too slowly to avoid serious damage to the electronics. (Though even modern transformers have breakers that really are designed to protect the transformer, not the sensitive electronic equipment in the locomotives.)

Best bet. Stick with the Z-4000 for PS1 and PS2 locomotives.

Good advice. It may be too hard this time around to buy a Z4000 for under-the-Chirstmas-tree use.

Thanks!!

Opening this post back up. I am hoping my repair person will be able to rebuild the MTH Z750 to operate my 20-20092-1 GEVO; in the meantime, since this is for a friend, I bought an older Lionel LW transformer to run the engine. All he will be able to do is run the engine, as this old transformer has no bell button, and it will not be able to blow the horn. Next I need to look up the series of posts on putting an in-line fuse to protect circuitry.