MTH Z4000 onboard breakers not tripping

I strongly disagree with uber. The Z-4000 breakers (10 amp track) are designed for a fast trip to protect the electronics on the engines. Perhaps not as fast as Lionel's, but still fast.

Thanks for both of your replies! I appreciate the insight. I assumed the breaker would trip with something like a screwdriver across the tracks or a derailment. Any suggestions from anyone on how to remedy the situation or anything I might be doing wrong? Is there any way to test the breakers other than the 'screwdriver' test? Thanks in advance. Bummed out that the z4000 breakers aren't working. That's one of the reasons I went with this transformer as opposed to a ZW...because it had things like breakers. 

The internal circuitry shuts the throttle down before the breaker trips. I've only seen them trip in the event that the FETs failed to a dead short.

Ok, this is where I show my ignorance even more. What inside the transformer would shut off the throttle? And what is a FET? And what would it then take to trip the external breakers because, as mentioned before, one small short on the track on the lionel cw or gw and those breakers tripped instantly. Thanks!!

the micro processor control board detects a short circuit and quickly throttole banck the currwent to prevent electronic board damage!

a FET is a field effect transistor is a device used to control voltage and current circuits think of it like a water spout and controls the flow of electrons threw the circuit being used ok!

that's as simple as I can explain it and not loose you or confuse you ok !

hope you understand fet is in effect a valve controlling  electron flow!

Alan

The breakers on my Lionel 180 watt bricks trip for any reason. They are fast. Sometimes too fast.

The breakers or whatever's inside my Z4000, have not tripped. They don't protect enough.

Install inline fuses after the Z4000. (I have them with the Lionel bricks too even though they have never blown.)

I have popped many fuses. Although it's a pain, it's better than many other things popping.

So inline fuses or the psx-ac is the way to go for the  z4000?

I've always found it shuts down pretty quickly, but want to protect my legacy engines as much as possible.

By the time the breakers trip on any of those above mentioned units the damage to the locomotive will already be done

Thanks all! I appreciate all of the valuable input. I noticed today that a derailment did flip on the 'overload' light and shut the throttle off...or at least I'm assuming it did since the locomotive probably wasn't making contact with the central rail anymore. The FET explanation is perfect. Thanks! So I'm assuming the red 'overload' light is in essence a breaker or fail safe then? Like on the lionel gw-180 when the light blinks red during a short? So, even if the circuits on the back aren't tripping, the internal stuff is protecting. Also, I am considering doing an in-line breaker just for the heck of it. Never hurts to be safe. What amp should I use? Thanks again!

Moonman posted:

I strongly disagree with uber. The Z-4000 breakers (10 amp track) are designed for a fast trip to protect the electronics on the engines. Perhaps not as fast as Lionel's, but still fast.

I don't believe they are.

If you put anything close to 10 amps thru any legacy, TMCC or ProtoSound electronics they're gonna be toast. If you're looking to protect the internal electronics put a 4 amp breaker inside the loco on the pickup roller

Thanks Matt!

The Z4000 is an electronic power supply. It probably is current limited to less than 15 amp. So, even with a dead short it will not deliver a large amount of current. A 180 watt transformer, which I believe the Lionel brick is, would probably deliver more than 50 amp, if a dead short was applied and it would do that, although briefly. I think many underestimate the Z4000 because they don't understand it.

oldschoolrail posted:

Thanks all! I appreciate all of the valuable input. I noticed today that a derailment did flip on the 'overload' light and shut the throttle off...or at least I'm assuming it did since the locomotive probably wasn't making contact with the central rail anymore. The FET explanation is perfect. Thanks! So I'm assuming the red 'overload' light is in essence a breaker or fail safe then? Like on the lionel gw-180 when the light blinks red during a short? So, even if the circuits on the back aren't tripping, the internal stuff is protecting. Also, I am considering doing an in-line breaker just for the heck of it. Never hurts to be safe. What amp should I use? Thanks again!

 

Yes, the red overload condition is a breaker for track protection. The "big ones" are transformer protection. I don't believe that you need the in-line fuse protection to the track with a Z-4000. If you want that, use the AGC Fast Blow. The amperage will depend on what you are running. I would guess a 4, 5 or 6 amp.

You do have to be careful running modern Lionel equipment. The Z-4000 output voltage can reach 20-22 volts.  Ok for MTH equipment, but the max for Lionel should be 18 volts. Check voltage at the track or on the output posts.

I hope you are comfortable with the unit now. Good Luck!